Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 55 · 6 months ago

Authenticity is Everything: Building a Strong Personal Brand with Sophie Milliken

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this week’s episode of Growth Marketing Camp, we chat all things brand with Sophie Milliken. She is a multi-award-winning entrepreneur, Director, NED, chartered FCIPD HR professional, author, speaker and investor.

Sophie shares her career growth story, where she got the inspiration for her best-selling book, ‘The Ambition Accelerator,’ and the steps she’s taken to develop her personal brand that has helped her progress in her career to now CEO of Moja.

As a special little bonus, she points out why it’s essential to always follow your gut instinct. So make sure not to miss this episode. Tune in and enjoy!

Bout Welcome to growth marketing camp, or we sit down with our favorite marketers to do mystify growth and give you the insights to help turn your next campaign into a major success. Let's get into it. Hi Everyone, this is jazz beenn in, cohost of growth marketing camp. Welcome to this week's episode. I'm very excited to have a special a guest with us today, so I fee milliken, who's the author of the best selling book the ambition accelerator, and she's currently the CEO at Mojo, where she works with executives and entrepreneurs on building their personal brand. So be thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for vising me. No, of course, I actually had a chance to go through your profile and I'm absolutely amazed at how much you've been able to accomplish in such a short period of time. So, before we even kick in and get into the details, I'd love to learn a little about about you, your career journey and what it is that how you got into Moja. Hmm Gosh, I could talk for hours just on my career, Jenny, I'm sure, and it's quite interesting because I've been reflecting on it quite a bit lately because I've actually started a voluntary role as an enterprise advisor at my old school, which is so weird because it's completely different from when I was at the school. The buildings have been knocked down and rebuilt and it's just very, very different. And I've been thinking a lot around career advice I had when I was at school and I was advised to do all sorts of traditional jobs and at thinking about the fact that you don't really get huge exposure to what's actually out there when you're at school, so you just follow a path that's expected. You know, I went off to the university. I thought I wanted to be a fashioned by it. I thought it'd sound super glamorous and it would be really good fun. So I went off to university in lead, so I'm in the northeast of England, leasers in the North Wells in the Yorkshire bit further south, and I was doing a course there are a business course, and then realize that you had to move to London if you wanted to be a fashion buy it, and that just totally put me off, which makes me laugh now because I did end up in London for about eight years, a bit further down the career but at that point in time did not want to do it. Found it really scary. So I ended up applying to a retail management graduate program back in Newcastle with a big department store group in the UK, John Lewis Partnership. Got On to that. It was really, really good fun. I managed actually every shop at every department in the store over quite a short space of time and then I fell into hr human resources and absolutely fell in love with it. ended up doing a learning and development coach role where a support another managers, and then I get this tap on the shoulder. Hey, you need to go to London right. I was like oh or but by this point I was mid Twenti s didn't have any responsibilities or ties, so I thought yeah, I'll go. It was a six month to comment. The business paid for me to be living in London, paid for me to come home whenever I wanted. So there's a pretty good gig to be honest. When down there they sponsored me through do my master's degrees. That was brilliant that I got that under my belt while I was down there and I ended up falling into another role, as is often the way, where I ended up being responsible for the graduate recruitment for the whole of the John knows ownership. Absolutely fell in love with that role. I got to network with people from other businesses, which was a whole new will because I've been very John Lewis up to this point. I also got to do loads of work with universities up and down the UK, which was Super Fun, getting to go out on campus and meet lots of people. And then in two thousand and thirteen there was a big restructure and my role was changing. Now by this point I was in my very early s and I'd got married, was living back in Newcastle, was commuting to London, which is, I give was a for our trip, and I had a baby. So it wasn't hugely practicstle for me to be doing that anyway. And then the new roles in the restructure it we're moving even further out of London and it just...

...wasn't practical. So I took the opportunity to leave. I set up my first business, which was a graduate recruitment consultancy where we work with really big employees to design their assessment materials and we also with university to prepare their students for graduate jobs and just plodded along, pludd along and did this with the CO founder. Two Thousand and thirteen was started that and he left in two thousand and seventeen. At that point he had been very he's very introvert, he's very quiet, he's very steady. Doesn't like to show it about things, whereas I found that when I was doing posts on social media about the jobs we were were working on and the fun stuff we were up to, because one of the things that we did with the students was we would hire out football stadiums, like really big football stains higher up the whole thing and put like five hundred students through a Mark Assessment Center to prepare them for job interviews, and it was really good fun and it was really good content. When he left I started sharing more of that and then people started showing a bit of interest in things. We started going for awards, I started saying Yes to podcast. So it was write and article for magazines and all these sorts of things and I just found that with everything that I did it created another opportunity. It made sales really easy. So I rock up to a sales meeting and someone would say, Oh, I saw you on this show or the Reggie book or whatever it was, and it made the conversation really easy because it felt like they'd already warmed to me before I even came into the root. So sales had been, you know, increasing, but at a quite a steady rate, and when I started doing all this profile bill and stuff, they went bonkers, like really crazy, and it was brilliant. And then, along with the sales side of things, it was those fun opportunities, you know, getting us to go on TV or the radio like that was so fun. It was really, really good fun. So that was all happening and then in two thousand and nineteen I sold that business but stayed on, as MD was going to stay on for a second exit, but decide, did last year, that I wasn't really enjoying it as much as I thought I would and decided to leave. So then I was thinking what, what am I going to do? What next? What next? And then I've got a few other things that I do kind of on the side as well. So they were all happening in the background, and then the idea for Moja came and I thought, do you know what, there's a space here, because in the UK. I feel that sort of PR and marketing as well, is fairly traditional. You know, the PR side of things is very much about, hey, let's create a press release and send it out to things. It's it's not that holistic approach and that focus on individuals. It's usually company based, whereas I think if you focus on an individual it's more interesting and it's more engaging. You know, if you think about people that are really, you know, big, big in business at the moment you've got the likes of Elon Musk right everyone knows who he is. He's out there, he's bold. People probably he's a bit, you know, love and more hate him, but he's out there. What a personality. I bet you with you to look up the followers that he has on social media and add them all up across whatever platforms he's on. I know he's huge on twitter. And if you were to add all those together and then add them all for his businesses, you know, add Tesla ad spacex and have a account for the businesses and versus account for him and guarantee the number of followers he has will be far higher than all of his businesses put together, because he's what's interesting he can post off and he can promote his business just by being him and he could sell anything now, I think because he's so you know, he's so well known and he's got such Shif following, but it's him that makes it interesting, hundred percent. That's why we're going with it. That's the bomb, and so I a there's a bunch of things that you touched on that. First off, I want to say you even sharing your career journey, everything that you did for your initial motivation wanting to get into it and how life kind of had its own plans for you. I absolutely love it. I think that even most of the markeners that we've spoken to on the show and most of the people who have kind of started their own business, they've had the most eclectic backgrounds...

...ever, and you might have something in mind, but life always has something else in store few so I love that you shared that. The fact that you had a baby and you had a family and your making that commute and yet saying Yes to new things, which opened up all of these other opportunities. I have to say like is so much. I've so much admiration for you and all of the women who have families, who are doing this because it's a lot the stuff that you just touched on, which led to the beginning of even Moja, hundred percent one of the things we're seeing now, not only what we're doing here at open sense, but what we're seeing and what we're hearing about all over linkedin and everywhels has. People don't buy brands, they buy from people, and the people are the ones that build the brands and most of the companies out there exactly what you said. Like we get our inspiration from different marketers who are out there documenting their journey, documenting their life. They may not have something where they feel like they have anything valuable to add, but everything from documenting their journey and sharing that is valuable. So the fact that you guys are doing it at Moi job not only I feel like people can resonate with, but brands could actually get a lot of value if they positioned their people instead of their products, because I guess people aren't kind of products too. Right. Yeah, absolutely, and I think I think there's probably some nervousness. Now. I'm already thinking about what what are the objections that a company would have around doing that for their people, and I think they would be nervous that, hey, what if they get so well known they then leave and and take the business, but I think that the potential benefits are so good that they should forget that as a reservation. And we we just we've got a contract that we're about to sign at the moment with a big I can't say here is at the moment because we haven't signed it, but its a big company in the UK and we'd be waking with all of their senior people and that is going to be amazing and I love the fact that they're just so open to it and they're not seeing that as a problem. They're seeing it is a development opportunity for their senior people and I think it's great and I think the companies that embrace that are going to see so much benefit from it because they're just being a bit more open minded and they're trying something that should engage with the with their customers. Yep, and I think that the people who end up being elevated in these companies and they see that their company trust them to be that voice. I feel like you're almost investing in that person and that person understands the investment and the risk that you're taking and so they you're going to try to uphold that and they're going to try to not disrespect that. That being said, I mean at the end of the day you're not your personal brand is not tied to the company as much. But I think what you said, you noticed yourself. You noticed your brand actually start to get more exposure because you give yourself more exposure. Yeah, you totally right. I think if you're if you're genuinely enthusiastic and excited about your brand, then that is going to come across and all the stuff you're doing. So when I was at John Lewis, you know as the biggest John Lewis Fan ever and it was so easy for me to promote John Lewis is a created to all the thousands of graduates that we would market to each year, to bring it into the business. When I was running and my first business, I was massively passionate about what we did and that made it so easy for me to sell because I truly believed in it. And it was only last year when I started thinking I'm not enjoying this anymore, and then that side, the passion goes and then you think actually, I'm not being authentic by saying all these positive things anymore. I've got the doubt there. So actually it's time to move on and do something now. So I think that that's really important and I think if a company does invest in their CD people in this way, then they're only going to benefit so much while they're still engaged in with the business and if they've, if they lose that engagement for the business at some point, then they've lost them anyway. Yeah, yeah, and a hundred percent agree with that. And actually that needs me to another conversation. I want to ask a little bit more information on. You should a Ted talk a couple of years ago on how surface level is it always reality? Can you share a bit about that and how brands can use lessons from that story to their advantage to share their both journey, the good, the bad, the ugly, especially the Danes were seeing all of our social media now, where people...

...can see right through BS and authenticities everything. I would love to learn all about that and how brands can learn from that experience. That you shall, let me tell you. Have you ever done a TEDX tour before? Oh my God, is this scariest thing. So I got I got offered that of the back of writing my first book from Lana Tana, which is for students and graduates to help them get a job. And I wrote that first book and I got offered to tex talks of the back of bed. Now I didn't really know that much about and knew what they were and I'd watched them, but I didn't know much about the process. And you normally have to apply for these, right and and I got offered too, and I just said Yes to the first one because I thought, oh, it's a great opportunity, I'll say yes and figure out out later, because it seemed ages away. It was like a year away or something. So then they say right, you have to go through this process and you have to have these meetings and you have to have done this and done this by this point before you're allowed there, and then when it's the day before, you have to have this rehearsal, all this stuff. Oh my God, it was son over. I can and if you, if you watch it, I'm wearing a really long goal dress, which is part of my story around awards, winning awards, and my neck shaking so badly going on there. I felt so sick. It was really never I can, but I'm glad I did it and I'm glad that I said Yes to it. And now the story around that and I get asked to deliver a similar talk, you know, the similar themes, as you know, events and conferences and things, and it's very much around that whole you know, we do project a bit of an image and actually when you start now in business, and no particularly with my first business, you have to have a bit of smoker mirrors around what you are until you get to that stage. So you projected all this positivity and hey, everything's great and we're doing this and we're doing that. You know, you have to do that for a while till you get to that point. But when, once you are at that point and you win in the awards and you've been asked to be on this show and that show, in writing books and stuff, people just look at you as if it's happened overnight and they don't see all that work that's gone behind it. And there's a lot of work that goes around it. You don't just win an award straight away. You've got to put you know, if it's a credible awards, you've got to have the stats to back it up. You've got to have the testimonials, you've got to have the history, you've got to have the story and people don't see that. Whole late nights weekends saying you know part of my story. I said to you that I have my daughter and I was commuting and stuff, but when she was too I actually got divorced from from her father. So I've been a single parent since then and that was really blom and hard because I'd only set the business up six months before we divorced. So it was awful. Like there was, and I talk about that a bit in the teddex actually, and it was a really rough time because I'd left my corporate job where I was in in really, really good wage, was on a startup salary with ridiculous cost nursery costs, my mortgage cost was really high at that point. So no one sees that and you're not going to do a post on linkedin saying hey, so depressed, slow and by as but I've got no money or whatever. But in my head I was thinking, Oh my God, this is really right off, like do I go and get a job or I know I can end more money, and I was always convinced that that business would do really well, and it did do really well and it's still do really well, and I knew that because I had that belief that what we would do and was really powerful. But it took a while to get to that point. So I remember saying to myself, Hey, it's going to take a couple of years, like you need to just hang on in there. It will happen and you need to focus your energy on putting the hours in. And and I don't have a problem with that. There's a lot of stuff at the moment is and they're around. You know, do you need to weakle these hours or can we all going to work for hours on the beach a week or whatever it is? And the reality is, when it's a new business, you've got to put the hours in. It's not just going to happen overnight. So I worked really, really hard, but I didn't mind because I knew I had well, didn't have any money, so you can do anything else at that point. But also I know, I knew that I would get the results if I did that, and it paid off and it was the right thing to do and it paid off pretty quickly, to be fair. You know, it was only it was a coup Lee as after...

...that when I was on really great money and money here. Are Sold that business and did well out of that. So you know, it was it was a rough time, but I could always see the light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, yeah, hundred present. It's interesting because it reminds me of a conversation I had with Mayer Girlsman, and she's also she's accomplished so much, just like you, and one of the questions I also had for is like hey, you know, how'd you do it? And hers was a similar situations in yours. She was approached by Microsoft and Google for the job opportunity that came to her, and she's like, people forget it's you have to really work so, so hard, and I think most people, when they see someone is in a certain position or they see someone as a certain opportunity, you just see them at that point where they are. You forget the blood, sweat and tears that went into it. So she said, I wish there was a magic pill to kind of like we're saying, but there is. There's no such thing as an overnight success and I think that a lot of the brands that we also see now and we're kind of inspire to follow their footsteps. You see them now as they are, but you forget that they also started US startups to and they had struggles. And one of the things you also mentioned is people don't want to put their challenges on blast anymore. All that, that's how it used to be. That's at least how I personally feel used to be. Now I'm starting to see, especially on Linkedin, personal brands or even companies are starting to share more of the challenges, kind of the ugly side behind building a business. They're insecurities. I feel like people are starting to amplify that and now, and and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, I feel like the more and more the filters are being removed, people are resonating with that. And is that like a new strategy? Is that anything that you're seeing a pattern or people you want in that? I'm I'm definitely seeing that. We were AH choking about that and the office sun this have today because we'd seen a post by someone that is quite big in business here locally and we would debating if he'd gone too fall with it, because think there is something around being genuine and showing they things, walts and all, but I think that sometimes it's strays into territory that I personally don't think it should. So the thing that I saw today was actually slating somebody else. It didn't name them, but I think I know who it is, and they were talking about how, you know, you've got to help people and he was after some help with his business and he'd help this guy and this guy and really benefit from his help. But now that he wants his he'll be can't get hold of him yet he's now just got this huge investment from this private equity feminine. So I know who it is and I just thought that you've gone too far back, because it's two personal or when you see people. So another one recently with a lady that was talking about how she literally had no money left and was almost sort of like that, begging for jobs. And I know you cheap name things. You know sometimes you've got to keep a lid on things. So I think there is a fine line between sharing and just going too far, because I think if you get to a point where you look like you're slating other people's like another people off, that's not cool or sort of devaluing you yourself by really admitting how desperate. I think that desperation bit. We can all be low and we can all have challenging times, and now I've had real highs and lows in business and when I exited that that business at the start of this year, that was really rough of and there's a lot I'm not allowed to talk about from exiting that business because I've got all these restrictions and hopefully at some point I will be able to talk about that. But and that's the kind of thing that would be useful. But again you'd have to do it in the right in the right way, you know. So I think it's good to show a bit of a balance, but you've got to be sensible and I think you know, sometimes when I've been unsure about posting stuff, I'll send it to the team first and I'll say, guys, what like, what you think with that is, have my gone have I gone too far with this? Is the too much of an overshare? And sometimes we'll say you might just want to take that bit out or know, this isn't good, or sometimes they like I absolutely love it. It's really out there and vulnerable, but it's good,...

...so so, and they've always been right and you know you've got it buy things as well. Sometimes you've got to jazzing. Yeah, I know, I love that. And I think even what you've described I've seen on on my feed, on Linkedin and even twitter and stuff, where it's almost like those sob stories or the people who almost use what you've described like desperation as a strategy. That's when you're no longer being authentic because instead of just sharing a story that you think other, you're now thinking right, how do I get those clicks? How do I get more people to actually, you know, read them, expand this post and me and then share? And that's where I think whether it's like people sharing their stories or brands doing something people can see right through, someone is doing something just for views, and someone has actually been genuine or authentic. And thank you. Also, I was gonna say someone was genuine in that, you know they've hit rock bottom and they've not got the sales or whatever. They almost need to just hang on. Yeah, you get think the upside of that and get through it and then maybe reflect on that time once they're past it, because it's that desperation isn't is not attractive, is it? In any aspect of life. It's not a track. So they need to yeah, it's still cool. Yeah, that and I think a good way to like overcome that if you're feeling it is and that's what we do. We also do something so alarned what you do in our marketing team will share kind of our post with each other, almost like using your team as advisors. And if you're feeling super passionate or anger upset about something and you want to document what happened, the ideas to never publish or post immediately when you're feeling it. Set on it right, sleep on it for a day and then go back and read, you know, your blog or your pose or whatever, your plans on getting up there, and you'll most likely, with a fresh mind, will want to edit it down like crazy it down. That's great advice. I'm going to remember that one. Yeah, so curious right now. I know it's said that you started Moja in January, two thousand and twenty two. What is your strategy to help build your brand? I know you mentioned that you're focusing a lot on your personal brand. To what are the things that you were doing to elevate yourself and then kind of a trickles down to Moja. Yeah, so I mean because we're in new brand again. It's really weird being installed up mode again, but with the knowledge and with a bit of cash in the business as well. So it's actually it's a great place to be, to be honest, because I have all that knowledge, but having a team and an office straight to a it's it almost feels like yea four of my my first business. So I'm really really enjoying it because I'm fairly well known in our area. The first thing that we did was with threw a big launch party and invited all the business people that we near in the region to come along to that, and it was just as we were coming out of a lot of the covid restriction. So everyone was like, Oh, yes, these are really want to come, I really want to cook. And then we had a bit of fun with the Goodie bags at that launch party. So you know, part of what we're saying is we want to help you get known in your industry so that you win the sales and these FAB opportunities. So we made magazines for the Goodie bags with everyone's faces on mother so they you know, if you had few K ead open it and you'd be on the face of the magazine and and then. So it was cool. It was cool then it sort of was like a brochuy with some of the services in it and we had lovely bags and, you know, all the merchants stuff, some chocolate, brandon chocolate thing. So it was really, really good fun and we had all the sort of local press for their so they all covered it. We got everyone on social media using the Hashtag get known. So we got we got we were in everything from that, which was great. We also started thinking really strategically straightaway about about leads and how we would bring people at and because we've started with an office in Newcastle but we want to do a launch in Manchester and in the northwest of them one in London as well. You know, we can operate globally. What we do is if there's no barriers in terms of locations. So although we've only got the office in Newcastle at the moment, we're already doing stuff with people in London, so it's not a problem. So we then created...

...a school card. I'm actually an angel investor in a complete called score APP. I don't know where you've come across them yet they are super cool. So it's I'm not techy, so I'm impressed by anything that's remotely Techy, but I love this piece of software that creates quizzes that basically the prospects fill out. It gives them a score and a report and they're they're really then totally excited about speaking to you. So we've done it based on all the seven areas we have of profile. So it's like, you know, where are you at in terms of award wins, where you're aems of power and influence? You know, do you get asked to speak at events or you want any other boards other than your own? We've got stuff around, Pul K, I do. Have you been on lots of podcast? You host podcast, all these questions that then give them scores in these different areas and then some practical tips as well. So we love that and we've been able to set up the same school card but with different links, so that we can track where they're coming from more accurately. When the software does give you it, but it's at a high level, I want to be really sure as to what's happening. We're also working with a really wacky marketing company, paste in the northwest, who I got to know through my last business because both of our businesses were under the this group, umbrella, and we both laugh and they're really, really out there. So if you go on my linkedin you'll see some little bit cringey posts. So it's a because they've got us doing these bonkers videos and I've had a few people get in touch with me and say have you lost the plot, because these are bad o. They are generating leads and I'm get messages. I'm getting maybe literally a handful messages people saying so few you gone mad, these are crazy, and then I'm getting lots of messages and people say these are really fun and I'm actually looking forward to the next one coming out because they're silly and their fun, but I understand them. So we're trying things out with that and the one we did, we did one last week and it's about personal branding and it's got my colleague Zoe branding someone's bomb with a with a Moja Bran and spoke coming off here and it's silly. It is. It is silly. We would never have come up with something like that because we're pretty corporate. But that got twelve really good leads off the back of that and it was a forty two video that we put on Linkedin. So you kind of think, actually, it's worth trying to these things out. Wow, what is the agency that you guys are working with? The called offended? I do know, though, I totally know. I tell them I followed them like almost man seven or eight months ago. But yes, after they are putting out it is so different and it is so hilarious. I've actually found myself on their blog reading their stuff and the stuff that they're your hundred percent. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it is going to get you noticed. It is you. It is fantastic. I am absolutely so like. I'm so excited that you guys pre using them, because we'll get one and if you want me to get one of them, money is show. Let me know. Yep, yes, please. I don't know, I'll totally take you off on the offer and'll be able to understand the with that thy man key union accents. But they're really good fun, the good guys. I really like them. Goes back to that thing around being authentic and they absolutely are when we're really in line with with them, and we're going to see them actually on next Thursday for a Filming Day Manchester, and they sent you the script ideas for the next five videos and we were just like this, oh no, I gosh, William. Okay, I will totally take you up on your offer. The stuff that they're doing any it is huge, like I think that most brands and and a business leaders, they want to get noticed, but then you're almost holding on to this fear of how business used to be and how people used to present themselves, and you guys are just you just going with it, and so, first off, major props to that. At least I can tell you. The stuff that I've seen them put out and the stuff that their customers are doing is just hilarious and it is so memorable and it actually reminds me of I don't remember. It was an article that I read and basically the the premise of the article was most brands out here, we're all doing the same thing, we're seeing the...

...same thing and most brands are scared, but would you should do is aim for fame, whether it's like a good babe, we're a bad fame, right. It's like crayking's right, just get noticed. Yeah, and the thing that's absolutely and sometimes we'll say to us, you know, you not doing that or what we want you to do this and and you know this bit has been a couple of things where we've just had to say no, no, not to do that. And out of that they sent us five ideas this afternoon and there was one where we were like that really doesn't make sense, like our audience will not understand that. To that we loved and to that were kind of just need a bit of tweaking. So we're nearly there with them and well, we hopefully will shoot five, five videos next Thursday. But yeah, but people, it's yeah, it makes people think and you don't want to just have really that. They say that they're, you know, the Anti Vanilla of marketing. They don't want to be a bit Hiller and they're not. So they are. They're good fun, they're good, they're good guys. They are good. So we've been having a bit of a giggle with that. So we're trying, you know, we're trying that that kind of thing and I think we're just trying to be really, really clever at measuring what's coming from each of the different things that we're doing. We want to get in front of more people because when I do things like Webinars, if it's a really targeted audience, we're getting loads of leads off the back of bows. So there's there's lots of things and we've got some one off services as well. So we operate on like a retainer model where we would sign something up for twelve months and they were, you know, they get different kind of activities each each month. But we've got some standalone stuff as well which has been a bit easier to sell in because the twelve month package is quite a big commitment. And so we've got a podcast studio that we've built in our office. We have some really cool software that we can do for a remote podcasting as well. So we've got all of that set up. We're doing award writing as a one off service as well, so we've got quite a few projects on the go for that. So all sorts of different thing I would also we're doing them. We've got a speakers agency which we just kind of just happened over that the plan was always with some of our great retain clients that we would represent them as a speaking agent and that we would get them paid speaking engagements. And then there was a few people who kind of approached me that I knew, that I knew here, that a quite wellknown business people, and they were saying, oh well, I'd have to represent me, but they don't need the rest of the stuff because they've got profiles. So we are yeah, we can do that. So we've now got a couple of business, quite prominent business women on it, and then we've got Dan Kelsel, who's the more well known guy of offended, so we were represent him. Could could go either way, but yeah, it's BIOS quite interesting. So yeah, it's we're trying that out. That might well grow MS and legs and turn into something else itself. So we we're keeping a close eye on that. Yeah, no, I had so considering literally that you guys just you're still in start our mode yet you're you're taking on all of these different avenues, testing your different channels, and there isn't like a single channel with as digital or in the physical world right, events and stuff, applying for awards, podcasts, connecting with other people. I feel like that's the that's a right way to do it to see what works and whatever works right, double down on it. Whatever doesn't work, let it go and make them for something else. I love that you guys are doing that. And Yeah, Dan is the person that I originally followed because I saw this policity share, which I thought it was very serious until I started going through the slide deck and I bought wow, the last lie back was just a joke. It's very great. Yeah, yeah, and it's like most easy, very pretty, super a super creative. He was like almost a slap in your face at the end. What I was like, AH, okay, and it would be lard. I loved it. He's very, very funny and he's massive on Linkedin now and I'm just's got something like sixtyzero followers on linkedd. If he ever he likes one of my posts, I know because it then get I get then get loads of random people look at me up on Linkedin. So yeah, he's powerful in that sense and just a good guy. He's just a good guy, and that's the thing too. That's the power of even like...

...the personal brands and Mosa it's there a certain type of audience you're going after, a certain type of profile or is it just so? So we did think about should we specialize in working with female entrepreneurs? Like at that was kind of where my head was going with it because I'd got quite well known in you know, I'd won quite a lot of female entrepreneur awards over the last few years. So I was being note being of becoming known for Champion in women. I recently joined aboard for an investment fund that is going to be targeting female and minority entrepreneurs. So that was kind of another thing around the female thing, the ambition Acceller, where that for women. I stopped my PhD in October. That's going to be in female entrepreneurship. So everything was kind of pushing me like do we? Do we niche that much? And you know, everyone talks about you should niche for these things, you should have a niche. And then I thought, no, not for this. Like maybe that happens at some point, but I don't think it is going to happen because the moment I'd say were pretty much fifty fifty. Yeah, actually around even with with the leads, could like all the way through. I think it's is literally fifty in tends of who you're speaking to and no point, and that was that was one thing we took too offended about. They did our branding and I was saying, or do we want pink in there? You know that's going to be over you know, don't want it to be really gaily, but I think because it's predominantly black, actually we're okay, we can get away with it, so that's fine. So No, it is literally, you know, an entrepreneur that understands the value of raising their profile, the benefits that's going to bring financially in fun wise, but they don't have the time to do it themselves and ll maybe they feel a bit imposter syndrome. What do they do? How do they do it? It's a bit awkward and we do it for them and that's that. That's what it is. And then they should see the results in their sales and they should see the results in all the fun stuff that they get asked to do. And then with it, if the companies, it's the same, but it's bigger. Yeah, no, I love it and actually, yeah, I was I was one you guys as website, but I am a female right. So I didn't see it, though, as being something that it is more effeminine and I actually said I was being well, it's a very bold brand, but I'm again seeing it from the context of being a woman. But I think that, yeah, the website, the messaging, everything that you guys have shared, it totally resonates and it hits the market. I like that a I love that you have, it's a lot of experience and you had an interest in women and dealing with women first, but also we understanding that at the end of the day, I think that even being a woman in a leadership position, you still have that like you don't want to be labeled as like a female CEO. You want your CEO Right. So it's like, if you just focus on the same principles that like men, men don't think about it. Women think about a little bit more. But maybe it's better to just not think about it and just focus on your personal brand without thinking about which gender you are. It just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, totally agree. Well, we're coming up on time, but this was an absolutely amazing conversation. I have one last question for you. What is the most valuable lesson that you've learned that our listeners can kind of take away? Oh Gosh, can I have to first? Yeah, have to. I think the first one is around going with you good instinct. I think that is really, really important and I was chatting to someone about this the other day actually, and we were saying about how it's never wrong, so even though it might be encouraging you to do something that feels uncomfortable. So if we look at my situation leading my first business, I was thinking about it last year, pretty much the whole year, and I had that feeling and I knew it was the right time and but my head was also then saying, hang on, if you leave now, you're going to lose load of money, because I had lots of options in that business and I had that real tustal around is it the right thing? And I really thought about it for a long time, but it was the right thing and even though I did lose a lot of money, actually I haven't regretted that. That hasn't been a single day where I regretted that...

...decision. So probably should have done it sooner. So they got instinct thing and I think you can apply that to people that you meet as well and whether you know people are good be well their intentions are. So that would be one thing. Definitely listen to that, and then the other one is kind of linked, or it can be linked in some ways, but it's around who you surround yourself with. So someone said to me what's that? People are like radiators or drains. So the radiator is they get to warm you up and give you all that warm, lovely energy, and the drains are just going to suck the life out of you, and I think that's really wise and I think you can use your radiators to keep you going and get you motivated and speak to when you're down or whatever, and they'll help you and they're they're a great sounding board perhaps when you've got those issues around the good instinct and is it Ryan? Should you listen to it? And you need to just be around really positive people like that. Was a game changer for me in that last business when I got a group of friends that were all quite business minded because they understood what it was like to grow a business and to be entrepreneurial, whereas all my friends up till that point had normal corporate jobs and they just did not get it. My parents can get it. They used to say, like when you're going to go and get a job and I was like, I'm running this business, is doing ry well actually, so I'm not going to get a job. And they've stopped that and they've not done that for about five years, but they just didn't get it because they didn't see it as a proper thing. So I think yes, around yourself for people that are get to lift you up in energize you and motivate you and celebrate with you when things are amazing and ignore the rest. I love it, and I got to say even my gut is telling me that you got that radiator personality stuff that you absolutely name. I gotta give it, got to pay it forward. That an hundred percent. No, I love it and I love the advice and that's like that's the kind of instinctual advice and most people don't even they try not to really think about it. But yeah, a hundred percent. I've had instances and times in my life where I look back and I'm thinking, yeah, that was a crazy experience, but had I not listen to my gut, like things could have gone out of control. And I like that thinking about your gut. Either it's like a good thing or a bad thing, but do listen to your gut. Same with the radios and the drators. I like that analogy and I think it's so, so important, especially for people who are trying to build their business, for people who in startups, anyone who's on a team. That's so super important. So I love that and I'm glad that you shared do because stead I said, look one it was such a great conversation. I think the GMC community is going to find a lot of value in it. Thank you so much for joining us. And how can people get in touch with you? How can they follow you? With your Linkedin or you on Linkedin? Yeah, I'm on linked it. A literally a probably the only so female kind on linked in. There's not many of us and so really easy to find on Linkedin and that's my most active platform. I'm also pretty active on twitter and I'm having to go with instagram at the moment. I'm not quite sure if it's for me, but I am on that and I'm pretty active. So they're the main ones for me for sure. And then you can easily find us through the Moje of thing. But if anyone's interested in the stuff that we do, all letting a bit more about their personal brand they should totally take the free assessment quiz on our website and it will give them a report and some pins and tips as to what they could focus on. Yeah, love it, love it. So y'all take the quiz and thank you again, Sophie. Everybody's going to labs. Love this episode and Y'all catch you guys later. Thanks for listening to growth marketing camp. If you enjoyed this episode, would love it if you would give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to give a little more inspiration for their next campaign. If you want to learn more about the company behind the show, had to open sensecom. That's open, se en Secom. Will catch you on the next episode.

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