Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 5 · 1 year ago

How a Podcast Guru Turned LinkedIn Into His Top Producing Marketing Channel

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

James Carbary runs Sweet Fish Media, the podcast agency for B2B brands. But he’s not a one-trick pony. His team’s skills in the LinkedIn arena have led to 3x more new business than any other channel in the last 90 days.

Welcome to growth marketing camp, where we sit down with our favorite marketers to de mystify growth and give you the insights to help turn your next campaign into a major success. Let's get into it, all right. Welcome to another episode of the Growth Marketing Camp. James Carbury, my good friend and CEO of sweet fish media, is join us today. James, welcome to the show, man. Thank you so much, man. I'm pumped to dive into this is going to be fun. Now I know some of our listeners out there going to be wondering. Wait a second, he said this is growth marketing camp. Why is a CEO on a marketing show? But the thing is, growth marketing isn't a title and James, I know you believe this, it is a freaking mentality. Yep, growth marketing is something that you embody, that you portrayed. I know we're going to break down one of the campaigns and ways that you've done this with your own team, but I don't give me a little take on that. How do you feel, as a CEO, be known as a marketer? I love it, especially with Dave Gerhart shouting all over the Internet right now. Don't go work for a CEO that doesn't get marketing, and I have the marketer on our team, Dan Sanchez, that tells me all the time how grateful he is our that he works, you know, for a CEO that actually gets it, which is obviously super. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside and I just think so much about like our strategic narrative and how we're going to market and our brand and I just think that's really important. It's funny to me that a lot of ce those don't think that way, but they also come up from building product and a lot of folks are just very product centric CEOS. And I'm sure that I'm missing a lot of elements in our business because I don't come from that world either. So it's easy to think, oh, because I get marketing, I'm a better CEO, you win, that understands product better, and that's obviously that's not the case, but I'm obviously biased because I had to learn marketing when I built my first product years and years ago, and that's what got me. So talk to us about that. What got you hooked on marketing? How did you get into this space that you're in now? So I built a product back in two thousand and...

...thirteen called Worth Day plannercom. The sites not even live anymore, but it was basically a tool. It was a BC product that helps you plan really cool days for people that you wanted to celebrate. Is a way to celebrate people without waiting for a birthday or an anniversary or special occasion. And so we had been planning these days for people at our church in different friends of ours manually, and I was like man, it'd be really cool to build a tool that could do all the heavy lifting of this planning. So Meta developer started to build a product and he was like Hey, I'm going to have this product built in about, you know, five or six months, but we're not going to have any customers unless you go figure out how to do marketing. So I dove head first and just started watching courses on facebook ads and obviously B Toc marketing as a whole different beast than be the be marketing, but it was during that season of life that I really fell in love with content marketing, this idea of just helping people, trying to create content that would genuinely help people. And if you could help the right people, they would ultimately want to do business with you if a need came up. So that's what got me super into content marketing and then started the agency shortly after that. We were a blog postwriting agency for the first year and then pivoted into podcasting after realizing, you know, this content based, noteworking idea of man, we can ask anybody we want to be a guest on the show and they'll say yeah, ended up being a really next level ABM play. That worked out really well for us. Yeah, that's interesting, just looking back to your history. So I fell in love with content marketing by listening to a podcast, interestingly enough, from a guy called Marcus Sheridan. He called himself the Sales Lion. He really opened my eyes to the power of content marketing. So it's fascinating to have you on the show and have that experience, kind of common background. So let's talk about what you guys currently do. It sweetish, because I think this would be particularly interesting for you know, those of our guests who have not yet heard of you, but I think many of them will have heard of you. What, Sweet Fish? Who Do you guys serve? Yeah, so we serve BB SASS marketers primarily, and we are helping them produce podcasts. So we produce podcast for BB brands. We're doing shows for terminus and for outreach and for a lot of the BBSASS companies that that you've heard of and where the production...

...team behind the scenes bringing their shows to life. If I can tell you as a whole thing, as we've learned here at Open S, that's incredible. Great. So maybe let's dive into this campaign idea now. Yours is not like a hey, we ran this ad for this period of time and here's the results you got. We're talking about something much bigger and and as you've mentioned, you shifted from blog writing as a company to now service for podcasting. But even within what you guys have done, you've shifted from this idea of podcasting and added on, let's say, you certainly haven't abandoned in any way the podcasting channel, but you've added on a new channel. So breakdown what that is and you know why that's become powerful for you. Yeah, so a few years ago I realized that Linkedin, when I wrote from my personal profile, not from our company profile, figured out that my linkedin content was doing really well. I remember a post getting like over a hundred thousand views and I was just like this is insane. If I had a youtube video that got a hundred thousand views on it, I would know what to do with myself. And linked in, this platform full of BB marketers are ide buyers, was my content was getting a lot of reach and I noticed that a lot of other people were getting a lot of reach on their content as well, and so I stayed consistent. I grew my following there and I ended up going through a really unfortunate situation with a business partner and just fell off the wagon for yeah, I don't know, maybe a year and a half, possibly even two years, where I wasn't posting as consistently. Sure, but I noticed that during that time a lot of other people, Chris Walker, started getting really strong on Linkedin. They get that's when I started seeing gig Dave Gerhart pop up a lot on linkedin. So a lot of people that were trying to talk to the same people I was talking to. We're starting to really make their name on Linkedin. It's a lot of people in the sales space that were jumping on to the platform and so probably maybe just under a year ago, we started a linkedin evangelist program at Sweet Fish, where we said hey, instead of just me posting. What if we started to pair different creatives on our team, the designers, videographers,...

...writers, pair people with employees in our company that wanted to build their personal brand while simultaneously helping our company? And what if we paired those two things together so that we could have multiple people on our team producing content from their personal profile on a very regular basis? Let me pause your right there, because I think where you are six steps ahead of the average marketer these days. Sorry, like thinking about the future. Most marketing teams, or let's say most leadership teams, and most marketings that I know of personally, like from a corporate standpoint, have not even a really encouraged their internal folks to do anything with Linkedin. Right. This is not even a channel to a lot of these folks, and less they're think about as linkedin adds. Linkedin adds is a total it's like having two different channels. Right. That's a place where things get distributed, sure, but there's this secret, underground channel that's really full of millions of people who are actively, you know, engaging in content. What you're talking about is not just saying hey, guys, share our posts, like our post from our corporate page. Kay comments on stuff that James on. Maybe we'll get a few more followers. You're talking about actively supporting with production quality stuff and people, the efforts of your own internal team members, and not only marketers wrecked. Yes, that's absolutely correct. Right now we have got when we first started it, we had our COO writing content. He's not doing it as much anymore, but he had. He was paired with a writer on our team and he would do some podcast interviews on bb growth and the rider would listen to those interviews and turn it into status updates. And we've got our director of audience growth, Dan, who has really taken and run with the program and sharing some gold. By the way, that market is out there listening. You gotta five and with Dan's last name, Dan Sanchez, so it's, I think, Linkedincom in digital marketing Dan, but he's been crushing it. He's been doing like three posts a day and we've got our designers doing gifts and memes. We're doing a lot of micro video stuff. Logan Lyles on our team. He's our VP of customer experience. He's been posting a lot of great content...

...as well, and we started some engagement groups with some people say is black hat. I don't really think there's anything wrong with getting a group of people together that want to engage with one another's content. They don't work nearly as well now and you have to switch them up pretty frequently because people just tune them out, but there's lots of little nuances engaging with other people's content. Like I was talking to a guy at lunch today. Actually he's in the recruiting space and so his audience is college students. He helps college students find jobs and he was like James. For the last month he was like, I've shut off all my facebook ads and all I'm doing is linkedin organic and what I'm doing is I'm going to like the three or four big people in my space that are writing content and getting tons of engagement. I read their post, I leave a super long comment that's really thoughtful, that's based on something they said, and my comments end up getting lots of likes and lots of engagement. And then he actually takes the people that are liking that post and he puts them into a linkedin funnel that he's created. Specifically in the channel, getting them to basically a discovery call, and then he is using the comments that perform the best and then he goes and creates his own content, and he said that those posts always end up getting a hundred plus engagements and thousands of views because he's already vetted it and knows that people are going to resonate with it, because he kind of is writing the coat tail of the visibility of the influencers post. So even we're not even doing that stuff, but like a little mini master classes just that's great. So he got my brain racing on how we could be doing that better. Dan Does that to a certain degree. Dance looking at what's Chris Walker posting, what's Dave gear heart posting? He leaves a lot of thoughtful comments on post like that and then uses that to inform what content he's going to be creating. You're seeing companies like gravy. I think gravy is a service provider that helps you reduce churn but through mailed payments on credit cards, and their CEO has been...

...big on Linkedin for the last couple years, I think, and they've got multiple people on their team that are doing it you're seeing tech companies like clary gone. I think outreach is down has been crushing the Linkedin game for as long as I've even had them on my radar, but recent last year just incredible growth. Yeah, and you're seeing it from across the organization right you've got folks Devin read and marketing, Chris Orlob who was in marketing and now and sales, Sarah Brazier, who is one of their str now she's an ae. Just these folks that are building incredible personal brands on the back of this platform but are also greatly beneficial to their company as well. And I saw Scott Barker from outreach and sales hacker. He mentioned something, I guess this was a few months ago, that he's like. I legitimately think that hiring managers a year and a half, maybe two years from now, are going to be looking at what is your reach, of your linked of your personal linkedin profile, and will be using that as a measuring stick on whether they want to hire you or not, because I think the activation of personal brands of your employees is it's so much more human, it's so much more authentic than a post from a company's page that gets very little engagement. You even look at what Chris Walker will get thirtyzero views on a particular post, and then his company will post something that's equally as good and it'll get a fraction of that. So there's something about the algorithm that is depressing the the company content that that a logo is posting, because I think the Linkedin knows that people are going to resonate with a humans content way more than they're going to that resonate with a company's content. Yeah, and that's always been the case. So one thing that I want to pull out of our conversation about Linkedin and the way that you've been activating your team members is how it actually corresponds to revenue growth, because the big risk here, I'll tell you that a lot of marketers and sales leaders have pushed back on the idea of linked in as a channel, is that, hey, that's where my team members go to mess around or to go follow somebody else or like. They go...

...and they waste time on Linkedin. But this can actually directly impact revenue. I know will share your example, but just you mentioned Sarah Brazier, who's going to be by the time this airs. She will have been a Webinar cohost with me. She actually sold to me. We bought gone and totally unplanned purchase because she saw something I shared on Linkedin. She was an active personality, somebody who I knew, not directly, but she reached out to me because it's something I posted. I had already heard of her, I'd already seen her. We engaged and, my gosh, it was incredible sales process because they have a great product that backs up exactly what she does and says on Linkedin. So they married really well. That personality with the brand and the product just happened to be a perfect fit at the right time because she was paying attention. But let's talk about on your end, the example you recently shared. I'm a part of the email newsletter that you send out on occasion here. I think it your up to like weekly now. Yeah, but it's always a blast and one of the ones that has going to blow people away. It's just the revenue attribution from the linkedin channel. To Talk to us a little bit about that. Yeah, so we recently pulled a report and helped spot and I don't know why we haven't been looking at this longer but for whatever reason we have it. And we were looking at the last ninety days and of all of the channels. So we've got our agency partnerships, we've got guests from our show, we've got listeners of our podcast, referrals, current customers. When we look at across all of the channels that new business comes to us in, linkedin drove nine deals at just over two hundred and sixteen thousand dollars in revenue over the last ninety days. Our second highest channel was referrals and it was three referrals over the last ninety days at just over eighty four thousand. So when you're looking at the difference of our second highest lead source was three times, less a third of what linkedin produced for our business. So when I saw that, I put it in the newsletter, which is why you mentioned it here. But it blew me away and I was like, man, I need to be I'm like sporadically posting myself from one maybe two times a week. I need to get...

...more consistent about posting every day on that platform because it's just unreal to look at the numbers like this is real. Let's two hundred and sixteen thousand dollars we would not have had if we didn't have multiple people from our company posting on Linkedin on a regular basis, and I think it's incredible. I want to draw a lesson here that maybe you brushed over a glass over, because you don't even notice it yourself, but there was a campaign or a strategy decision that you guys made that you said we should have been looking at this more often. I don't know why we weren't, because you trusted yourself, because you had done the research, because you had seen what it happened. Now you're ready to scale it up. There was a certain level of trust you put in your marketing team and your team as a whole to say we don't have to watch this thing like a hawk. Now you're big proponent podcasting, which is also a long tail result type of activity, so I think you maybe have more that mentality than the typical CEO. But this is where a lot of marketers get into trouble, is they want to do the long tail projects but they know that it's difficult to prove the Roy the success of something, so finding those small ones along the way. But there's also something to be said for this is a good strategy, you have confidence in it, let it run for a little while, give yourself some time and then go assess it, analyze and see where you can be optimizing, because it wouldn't have been worth going and talking all your friends who are telling you these new tactical strategies you can use if you hadn't gone ninety days down the road, if you haven't gone a hundred eighty days down the road, if you don't give it some legs to run, then you can't see if that's an optimization or if that's a replacement of your strategy. So there's there's this. Man, I could just blow up that one little lesson into a million different nuggets, but watching that and just seeing how you might have glossed over. But it's really important that we give these campaigns that we believe in time to be successful. Yeah, they've got to have time and space to breathe. And I'd never even really thought about it before, REX, until you set it. But obviously the podcasting channel, it can take time for your podcast guests to turn into revenue for Your Business. And because I'm accustomed to that thinking and I just know that this kind of stuff takes time. It did set me up to have the right mindset going into Linkedin, but it's also just it's really fun and when you got multiple people on your team, like...

I'm constantly tagging other people in our team in post that I think they would think is interesting. We're engaging with each other's content. It's just it's having fun. I think a lot of people approach linkedin like it's this buttoned up, stuffy platform and it absolutely does not have to be. It can be really fun. Let your personality come out, the posts that do the best or posts that are really vulnerable or post that are it's a gift or a meme or something lighthearted, and I think you see that in Sarah Brasier's content. You see it in a lot of folks content, and so you don't have to take yourself super serious when you're activating the the personal brands of or the personal profiles of people on your team, but let them be themselves. And I think you'd be hard pressed to do this for six months and look back and wish you would have invested somewhere else, because if your buyers are on Linkedin, there's so much opportunity organically right now it's insane. One thing rex that we were talking about offline that I want to make sure to mention here. It's and it's an evolution of our thinking around this. So I camp out pretty squarely and talking about one topic, the topic of BDB podcasting, but Dan on our team talks about a lot of different things related to digital marketing. He's a marketer, and Logan talks about sometimes be to be podcasting, sometimes I'll talk about some different marketing things, sometimes I'll talk about customer experience, because that's his role now. But we found that the more focused my content stays on one topic, the more people are able to associate my name with a particular thing. And so now we're taking our linkedin game to the next level and saying, okay, Dan, what is that topic for you that we want your name to be synonymous with? Thought Leadership? Is it account base marketing? What is the thing that we want Dan to be associated with? What is the topic that we want Logan to be associated with? And starting to just add more focus to their personal content strategy. And I think we're going to see some enormous results from doing that. We're already getting hundreds of thousands of dogs and revenue attributed to this channel over the course of a quarter. What can we do if we start getting even more...

...reach because people and more brand affinity, because people are associating them with things that podcasting happens to be closely tied to ABM, it's closely tied to thought leadership, it's closely tied to content marketing, these topics that we've been touching on sporadically, but being more intentional and adding more focus. Yeah, and hieing specific names and faces from our team with the specific topics. One, it's greatly beneficial for their career. So even if they leave sweet fish a year from now and if Dan is known as the account based Marketing Guy, he's going to be able to write his ticket with a variety of software companies that are going to want somebody that understands abm like the back of her hand. Same with Logan, same with any other evangelists on our team that we help them to find. Okay, this is the swim lane that that we think you can swim in the best. And Yeah, it's a win for them and it's obviously a huge one for the company. While they're at the company. Doesn't that make perfect sense with what we know about every other channel in marketing right that the more focused you can be on the thing that's going to benefit your audience, some more you know specific you can stay the better. Certainly there's some benefit to keeping market awareness and going and grabbing new topics and making sure you're speaking to things that people are concerned about or interested in now. But becoming an expert is a thing that takes a great deal of effort in time and if you can accelerate that by focusing on your area of expertise, it's going to just it's going to accelerate the rate of which people start to recognize you for that thing. And I can tell you I've never said anyone's name about bb podcasting more and I've said yours. And I've never recommended someone's like marketing group or his very tactical information than Dave Gerhard and I've never recommended more. How do you share with your ceo what marketings really like videos than Chris Walker? They're very clearly focused on those things in the benefits are are very tangible, as you're seen in the revenue side, which is super exciting. So now we've already broken down. What would you do differently if you could do it again? Because you're still doing it. This is not a oneandone campaign. This isn't something you might bring up next quarter. We're going to throw it in the budget like you're doing it today. Yeah,...

...let's say. Have the results from this influenced other strategies or other campaigns? Are other channels that you're working in other than Linkedin? Kind of personal side? Yeah, so there are a couple different things that I'll say. They're one thing that we've started doing really we came to this conclusion independent of realizing that Linkedin was working so well. But we're starting to do original research. So we're going back to all of our BB growth, our podcasts guests, and we're asking them the same set of ten to fifteen questions. You are part of that, and so we're going back and asking all these questions. We're having it chopped up and we've got little time stamps for every person's answer and our team, in the next couple weeks, is actually going to be going through and analyzing all of the answers. So questions like what is your most successful marketing channel? What's been the most helpful book on marketing that you've read? What is a trend and be tobe marketing that you think is way overblown or should not be talked about as much? What something that's underrated, something that you think should be getting more talk time that isn't being talked about? And we're already noticing some really cool trends just by doing that research and I think it's going to fuel that much more content for the personal brands on our team that are posting content on a regular basis. Now we've got research like that's going to be really interest hardy data. Yeah, so I'm really excited about that. We should be done with our first original research project in the next two or three weeks. I don't know when this will go live, but hopefully we'll be done and it will be shipped in March. But it's not just a matter of doing the report and shipping the report. Yeah, knowing that each report is probably going to have thirty or forty different linkedin status updates that multiple people on our team are going to be able to post, and I think that's just modern marketing right. Like I think we used to think about things in terms of put all this time and effort and energy into one thing. We do this launch and then it's over, where this one original research project that we've been working on for the last several months. We're going to be getting mileage out of this going into two thousand and twenty two, because we're still going to be posting about it even though it...

...launched back in March of two thousand and twenty one. So I'm really excited about that. The other thing I'll mention, rex, and this is a little bit off of what you asked. What I want to make this clear. Like with Linkedin, I've preached in BB podcasting that you don't want your show to be about yourself. You want your show to be about your ideal buyer and what their expertise is. Because, similar to what you're doing with this show right, if you made this podcast squarely about email signatures, nobody would want to listen to this and less they're an email signature vendor that wants to know everything there is to know about this, because that's in reality, who would be attracted to listening to a show like this. But instead you are making this show, growth marketing camp, about your ideal buyer, the person that buys open since and it's actually a show that a lot of growth marketers are going to listen to. Our already listening to and so the difference in the nuance and knowing that with our show would be to be growth. It's not all about be to be podcasting. But with Linkedin it's different. I'm not featuring someone else's voice. I'm sharing my own voice on that day. I'm not trying to do ABM and build relationships with my clients by featuring them as a guest on my show. Like any with my podcast on Linkedin, I'm writing from my perspective, I'm writing from my place of expertise, and so I think it's just important to note those two things. Like with your podcast, absolutely make it about your ideal buyer. If you serve higher ed marketers, you should be launching the Higher Ed Marketing podcast. You should not be launching a podcast about crm or whatever it is the thing that you do, but you absolutely can talk about crm and the nuances of crm and different things like that through your personal profile on Linkedin. I've just found that little nuance there has been a game changer for us as we've approached both of those channels separately. Yeah, it's critical that we understand the difference is there. I totally get you there. I love that, the distinction and I think they'll be really useful for audience. So let's zoom out and talk about...

...growth marketers as a whole. As we've already mentioned, like this is a mentality of growth. What's one thing that you would say, Hey, we've got to stop doing this as growth marketers, or maybe one thing that we should start doing that isn't very common, other than obviously the thing that we're breaking down today from your campaign for what are some other ideas there? Man, I think you touched on a great one earlier rex not expecting, not going into something thinking that it's going to produce results in thirty days, but really giving campaigns space, to giving them the space they need to see if it's actually going to work or not. The other thing that I have been talking a lot about rex, that I think applies here. I think we need to get more focused and intentional on developing our points of view. Like so much of growth marketing has to do with content now, and I think we're looking at different like how can we get the most we can out of Reddit or how can we squeeze the juice? You know, get all the juice from the squeeze from twitter. How can we look at these different channels? What can we be doing with email? But at the end of the day, if you don't have a strong and distinctive point of view about something, then nobody's going to really respond, regardless of whether you're doing it on ticktock or clubhouse or whatever the latest social tool is. You have to have strong points of view and I think you can do that for yourself and for other people on your team that you're activating to do the strategy that we've been talking about here, getting them on linkedin and posting from the personal profile, by asking a series of three questions. One of them is actually the very similar to the one you just ask me. What's a commonly held belief about whatever their expertise is that you passionately disagree with? In the second one is what should folks in our space start doing today that they're not doing right now? And then another one is what's something that people should stop doing right now that they are currently doing but shouldn't be doing? And if you can get different folks on your team answering those questions, you'll probably realize that the your evangelist, the folks that you're wanting to create more content on, linkedin from...

...their personal profile to advocate for your brand. They've got more than one POV. They've probably got six, seven, eight Po he's Gary V, has made a name for himself on having eleven or twelve POV's. Like patients, hard work, like all of these things. He can hammer on in a lot of different ways and share a lot of different angles. You shared perfectly, like one of the POV's of Chris Walker is. Here's what you need to be showing your CEO, these specific things so that they get it and so they start making the right investments in the right things. Gearharts big Pov's is that copywriting is everything, and so he talks a lot about copywriting and how marketers can be thinking about it differently. So this plays out when you think about any person that comes to mind when you think of a particular word. The reason that happens is because they have a unique and distinct point of view, and so unless we proactively try to develop those point of views for ourselves, for our own personal brand as well as the folks on our team that we want to start that we want to start lifting up. Then the contents just going to be flat and it's not going to have a bite to it. And unfortunately there's so much content on the Internet right now that unless your content has a bite, unless it's got a very distinct point of view, it's just going to blend in with the crowd and nobody's going to care about what you're saying. I love that you gave us the actual questions to ask and be thinking about with our internal folks, because the temptation is to just go pick the most popular viewpoint and say something imposing to it. It's very easy to go out in the market and say, all right, what's everybody saying about ABM? You know what I'm going to say, screw ABM, forget these guys, like I'm going to go say something to pose, just to be different, just to stand out, just have somebody pay attention to me, and that's not at all the level of authenticity that you should have in a channel like Linkedin, where authenticities kingdom. That's going to be the winning strategy. Yes, I think is great advice, very tactical. Those questions. I think are very useful and they're definitely why we've deployed them on the show. We've learned a ton from you guys in your team just looking at the way that you're managing and overseen marketing at Your Company Right now. How big is the team who's responsible for what? Obviously one of the benefits of the strategy we've been talking about is that you've now got many marketers...

...and that so many marketers throughout your org. But from the actual structure of the marketing team today, what does it look like? Yeah, so we have our director of audience growth, is Dan, and so he leads the marketing function. We've got a content strategist on his team that's doing he's running point on on the course that we're building around BDB podcasting as well as the original research that we're doing. Is a brilliant strategist. His name's Timmy. And then we've got a content writer that does a lot of writing for a bunch of different people and team. Her name is emily. She doesn't actually sit on the marketing team, she's on our creative team and so she's client work, because we're an agency, client work. In addition to writing a lot of the stuff that's helping us rank organically on Google, as well as doing a lot of the stuff that we're doing on social so she's involved there, and then we've got a contract writer that we use for a lot of our social content as well. So it's Dan plus three and we're driving really incredible results from marketing perspective with a marketing team of less than five and not even our content strategists part time and both riders, one is a contractor, one's full time, but she's only spending probably a quarter of her time on marketing. So I think you can do this stuff with out a ton of resources and it's proving to work really well for us. I'm here in that. Consistently. That's been definitely a theme in this show and the folks that we've interviewed as you can do a lot with a little if you're focused, if you know your strategy and you know where you want to place your bets. Yep, you don't have to place your bets everywhere. You should be conscious of the market around you and where the opportunities lie. But go pick some places, go be there, go do some things and let him sit for a while and produce some results and optimize over time. Yeah, great lesson. Now looking at the broader market, we've named half a dozen incredible folks. Has there been anybody who you haven't maybe named already that we should be following on Linkedin or maybe even invite on the show? Yeah, who have? I've been getting a lot of value from on Linkedin. Chris Walker is so freaking good. John Rougie, his name is spelled our UGEUX.

He is the VP of marketing at bombomb. Yeah, putting out some phenomenal content, specifically are on category design and category creation. Nice. Another guy at bombomb Ethan beute. He is the chief evangelist at bomb he's putting out some fantastic stuff around customer experience specifically. So those two guys come to mind. I'm really liking what Chantel Marcel is putting out. She's at Herman, I think, a manager of growth marketing. Maybe there I'll I'm seeing her a lot on twitter and on Linkedin. Nice. Maya Grossman is another one. She's a VP of marketing at a coming and called jump start. But she does a lot of stuff around, or a lot of her content is around building your marketing career, and so it seems like every other post she writes goes megapral. But so yeah, those would be a few names that I think would absolutely be worth a follow on Linkedin. That's fantastic. We appreciate it. I'm sure everybody listening is appreciative of all those ideas, because we all need inspiration. remarketing is a very creative effort, even as much as we try and make it an engine. There's a creative element to this thing that we all love and enjoy. So I think it's why a lot of us are in marketing today. So thank you for those ideas. James, couldn't be more excited to have you on the show. Maybe my favorite interview because you and I are friends, but also a little nerve racking because you're like the podcast Guru. So thank you for joining us, thank you for making time and just a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much, recks. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening to growth marketing camp. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you would give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to get a little more inspiration for their next campaign. If you want to learn more about the company behind the show, had to open sensecom. That's open, sken skecom. Will catch you on the next episode.

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