Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 17 · 1 year ago

How a Small Marketing Team Can Power An Enterprise Brand

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Chris Stephenson’s small but mighty marketing team at Broadspire regularly produces quality content, stays in touch with what’s happening on the sales frontlines, and leverages performance marketing tactics to find gains in their everyday efforts. It’s a lot to ask of a little crew, but in this episode, Chris unpacks how they get it all done with smiles on their faces.

Welcome to growth marketing camp, where we sit down with our favorite marketers to de mystify growth and give you the insights to help turn your next campaign into a major success. Let's get into it, all right, welcome to another exciting episode of Growth Marketing Camp. I'm joined by my friend Chris Stevenson, WHO's the director of marketing at broadspire. Chris, welcome to the show. Were excited to have you rex. Thank you for having me here. Yeah, absolubly in your camp. Very good. Well, it broad's fire. Just to kind of think about where you're currently at. We'll talk about your background in a minute. You guys are working in the healthcare and claims management spaces. All right, great, yeah, claims management, you know, primarily think about if you get hurt at work or if you happen to be in a store or some kind of business and you get hurt, there's going to be kind of a workers compensation claim, some kind of liability claim. We work with those companies to help manage the claims. Okay, perfect. And it seems like you started out your career and healthcare, dove into performance marketing and kind of maybe combining the to these days, that right. Yeah, so I started in be to be marketing, very traditional like professional services space where I am now. Started back I came in like sixteen years I've been in this now, I guess, total, and then took a sharp left from the very sales ledlong relationship driven, complex sales cycles right into performance marketing, which was I mean we're talking about like we're doing one two dollar APP installs, right, so it's like you start the campaign on it midnight on Monday. By noon on Monday, you have all this data. You know, I could tell you oh, in in Thailand, this particular cell carrier with this pursular type of phone has the best conversion rate and we're going to hone in on that and then milk it until the market becomes completely saturated. So it's like the complete other end of the spectrum from a you know, long be tob sales cycle. Yeah, so you've been there and back again in these seas. It broad spires a more focused on those longer sales cycles again. It is. Yeah, so, you know, long, long sales cycles, very relationship driven. It's, you know, beb marketing, like we exist to help make sales right and it's all about revenue and the end and that happens through a salesperson, at least in our part of the world. And so it's about helping the sales team do what they do, whether it's greasing the skids, provide more air cover, you know, and the benefit of what the the size of marketing team we have. It's traditionally you might have a few different departments or whatever in the broad spire part of our business. Formerly within marketing there's the chief sales marketing officer, there's me and then we have a marketing coordinator. So yeah, small team,...

...but the cool part about that is, you know, we're looking at the whole funnel. We're looking at it all the way from you know, let's do some kind of more like general awareness kind of campaigns and then, Oh hey, we have a finalist presentation with a really big opportunity next week. How can we make sure that we're getting the right message across, that we're speaking directly to them and what we're talking about their needs? So, you know, there's a lack of a silod approach by a force that that we take, and so whether it's blending in some of the performance aspects and different parts of this or in between when I let left the pure performance space and came back to be to be work for a large web publisher, and we were, I mean, I'll just say it, like we're part of like the Click Bait generation of facebook. It didn't start like that, but that was the game we are all playing. But what we learned is you got to be able to tell a good story, and our bread and butter was people clicking on something and then consuming that content. It could have been, you know, this cute puppy plan with a rabbit. It could be a kid saying in their first word, it could be somebody helping a lady cross the street, you know, and it was just about like what's the hook? What's the good story here? So, like, Hey, it's not just numbers, right, like it's not just let's fill the pipeline with a bunch of numbers. It's not just this mechanical numbers game. And there's also, you know, let's think about how we can tell a good story, get people interested in what we have to say and and then how can we help create some awareness in the market, helped shape the perception of our company and then create a little bit of brand affinity while we're at it, to then help bring it back to the sales team when they're talking to somebody or if they get you know, whether it's an OURFP or they bump into somebody. I would love for their job to be easier when it comes to the closing that deal. Yeah, and I think we're going to touch on that soon in a more specific way, because I'm interested to hear more about how you're supporting the sales team in that way. Thinking about how you got here though, you know, going from that more BTB play out to the performance marketing, even into that Click Bait space, where you had to the play that game, and then coming back. It seems like there is an advantage to folks who have that more rounded experience where you didn't spend your entire career in Sass or you didn't spend your entire career doing one particular type of marketing. I'm sure that the things that you learned in optimizing, you know, subtitles on articles and calls to action in the color of the button in performance marketing similarly carries through to what you're doing today. Have you found that that is influencing the way that you're you're doing that marketing, even though you have to cover so many areas today. Absolutely, absolutely, and I think if I look back, you know, again at the pure performance part, right, it's still a funnel. It's just collapsed. Right. So somebody sees...

...the ad pop up on the bottom of their phone. Hey, download candy crush now. Yeah, then they click through, and then what do they go to next? And then so what does that look like? Right? And so then you just take that kind of like highly condensed funnel and you spread it out, you know, across a different sales cycle or whatever that might look like. And you can also, you know, zoom in or out, whether you're talking about a particular email or a linkedin campaign, take different pieces and plug it in. We're going back to the lack of silos that we have in our marketing structure. You know, I think it's one of the things. You know, it's easy to look at, you know, an Amazon or Microsoft or whatever, you know, big Tech Company, and you're like, oh, man, you know, it would be great to have a team that does this, yeah, and or to, you know, to have groups of people. We're like this is what you do. Yeah, and and I agree, you know, it would be nicely, who doesn't want to have a team of people that just like Hey, we just bang out awesome emails all day long, we have great ads, we you know, this is what we do. But when you know you've been all over the place, you've done a variety of things up broach, you're able to look at it from a holistic perspective and also kind of not lose the force for the trees. Yeah, it seems that there's, you know, more and more opportunity to enterprise companies, to get really, really good at one particular thing, which can be exciting, right where your team's larger and you're able to be the senior manager of headlines, you know, and add copy. But it does seem like you miss out on a couple of things. So I think one is like you can get lost in Oh my gosh, this is so important and vitally, you know, like we have to get this exactly right and ultimately is a beneficial yes, but you can't really zoom out and see everything that you could impact and you don't get to have as much impact, frankly, and some of those roles. So it can be exciting to have a more direct relationship with the sales team have a more direct relationship with the customer. So what does the relationship look like right now with the sales team? How do you guys work together? Because I imagine you're the person they call on when they need something to help them and you're thinking about them more regularly than perhaps the senior manager of headlines. Yeah, that's a great point. So, yeah, I try to keep a really close relationship with the sales team and you know, way early on in my career it was very transactional, right. So it was like, Hey, I need this sales deck, I need these bullets to be on it, I need it turned around like this, I need you to it was the kind of the classic you know, somebody flips something to marketing and said as maybe a pretty Nigo pop, you know. But what I realized is when I would talk to the sales team about, Hey, what are you trying to do here, and I would ask them, you know, about the opportunity of it, like Hey, what are you trying to achieve? What's your goal, I would learn a lot more. It made me better at my job, it helped them more and and so what I like...

...to do whenever I have the time or they have the time, is I like once a week or once every couple weeks, I'll sit down with a particular sales person. It's like hey, what's going on now? What's working, what's not working, what's resonating? Where these last opportunities come from, what happened to this one and where we are now in the organization where marketing sits. It's kind of part of sales. So I report up to the chief sales and marketing officer, which is great because we're aligned at the same goal. Right, it's about revenue. Nobody's coming to me saying hey, you know, I'll like being on the traditional like I say traditional, it's been kind of a new thing, but the MTL part right, the divisiveness between sales and marketing doesn't exist, because I'm really looking to help them win more. I told them all the time. I'm like, look, I want to put more money in your pocket, you know, like if I'm talking to VP of sales west coast, rex my rex on a, pull more money in your pocket, man, because that means you're winning, and if you're winning, I'm winning. We all win here, and that's how I view it. I mean, I love the sales team. I think it's great and I love talking because I learned more talking to the sales people with one on one conversations. Then, you know, it's like going to school sometimes. You learn so much about the market and the customers and why people buy just hearing that direct feedback on a one to one basis. You can't find that in sales force. There's no field for it. Yeah, and isn't that always the complaint? Right? One is that they're throwing over mqls that will never become qualified leads, that aren't real leads, and the other is like they don't really know what's going on. Oh, sales always says, oh, marketing doesn't really know what the customer wants. They don't know really what they're saying, which is unfortunately sometimes very true. Right, I've been on both sides that. I've been sales, I've been marketing. I've been the guy accusing the other folks of not understanding. I've been the person who's not understood and I get it. But where we can have that closer relationship it seems that we're going to both benefit. Certainly, I think one thing that I want to call out that you mentioned that I would love for our audience to double down in. This idea is going from what I'll say is going from order taking like a line cook, to becoming a head chef, where your talking to the person who's place in the order and saying, Hey, I know you want that sales deck, but talk to me about the opportunity, like what do you really hungry for? What is it you're trying to solve for here, and I can help you with that. Yeah, do have the skill set to take an idea they have in turn into something much bigger than whatever that idea originally was, or rather much more valuable, much more impactful than what they might have originally come up with themselves. If you can get that context. Now, that can be hard to do. It sounds like you have a number of ways, like sitting down with them one on one. Sounds like you report up, you know, within the right structure, so you have more of those kind of sales related conversations. And a one thing we're doing it open sense. We've had a revenue team meeting every week where we kind of talked about the same focus, the things that we're working on collectively, you know, talking to ideal customers,...

...learning about their daily challenges and enticon, two words of better future. Well, those are all things for sales and marketing to be working on together. We'll call out like hey, team member over on marketing, how are you doing that today? Hey team member over on sales, how are you doing that today? It sounds like because you have that reporting structure, we're talking sales and marketing combined. Do you have more of those conversations? You feel not in a kind of what are you doing today type situation, but you're totally right. I'll expand on on what you said for your audience. Is I every time we get asked to do something in marketing it's an opportunity for us to try to learn more, right, to try to get better, to try to learn more about the market, try to learn how we can, you know, help collapse a timeline or anything, and so I really like to have those conversations where as like, what's the objective here? Who are the players? If we were putting this together for one person, who are we talking to? What do they care about? You know, let's look at you can call them a personas or bier types or you know, what have you. You know where we're talking to more of the financial economic buyer. Does this person really care more about the the day to day service delivery and how it impacts them? So, yeah, those conversations that you're talking about. It's helpful and you know, I mean I say it's different, but it actually is. Is kind of the same, because we have a weekly sales meeting, but you could call it a revenue team meeting. Yeah, because I'm in there from the marketing side. I'm learning, I'm siphoning there and there talking about you know, hey, here's what's going on in the sales world. I'm able to, like I said, to learn so much from it's huge. Just thinking about the types of channels that are working for you, maybe the assets that you've created that have been really powerful, like what has been working for you in the sales team? What have you found had the most impact so far? Yeah, so our industry is you could call it thought leadership, but the bottom line is really just educating the market, and that that's pretty cool, because I think it's good fundamentals on creating content. You know, it's content marketing. Are there particular places where you're promoting that thought leadership? Let's say you guys have written a great piece, that you feel like it is going to really educate the market. How do you get that into the hands of buyers? Today? For promotional channels, obviously social media, we do advertising. We work with some industry publishers to help syndicate the content, which in our industry that them and you know a lot of people do it. I know in other industries it might not work as well, and I'll say this because I know that content syndication is something people kind of frown upon a little bit, but I would say if you know what the audience make up is a particular channel, then you know, leverage it right, like there's no harm, even if you consider renting somebody else's email lists like do that, you know. And then this is another one where I leaned heavily on the sales team, on our account management team. We're constantly peppering them with like hey, here's this new...

...article we put out. Hey, here's this white paper, here's this case study, here's this Peda, here's this social link. You know, shared it on social media, email to people directly, and that's been kind of like one to one personal channels when I've been able to get some really good feedback. More on the qualitative side. I'm trying to say, like what kind of content is working in terms of like, or is it these success stories? Is it a case study? Is it, you know, a feel good type piece? Is it more of a general education what's working? What kind of content people like? And then is there a way that I can also help test out different types of messaging to the market? Do people resonate more with you know, US all this funny tweet once. It said like I think ninety percent of be to be marketing can be summed up as we save you time or saving money. Yeah, or then you can say like, Oh, we make you money. But so it's like you know which of those, if I was to put in these big buckets, you know which of those messages seems to hit with people a little bit more. I know you'd recently run an experiment, and I think this will be particularly interesting to the audience, around growth and what that means for you guys. You've been running experiments with the messaging within those emails, the language, the types of messaging, and you come from an industry, I will say that has existed for a long time, that has maybe a more traditional, a little bit slower approach to modifications and changes that it. But you previously have this work in in performance marketing, so I imagine like you've wanted to run very quickly and maybe it's been a little bit slower to adopt that change. It seems like the experiments have been going well for you. Can You bring some of that down for us? Sure, totally, and you're right. I mean the insurance industry has been around for a long time. Our parent company, Crossborn Company, turns eighty this year. So you know, eighty years ago there's no digital channels, like there wouldn't even it wasn't even in the cards at all. I'm always, you know, ready to try stuff out. And what we did to take back to the origins. I started out the year saying, Hey, let's talk to some customers, right. I worked with our sales seem with our accounts myself. I want to talk some customers when I have some conversations with them, right. So I saw down with them. I talked about content. It was, you know, where do you find it? What do you like? What's great, what's good? What's a waste of your time? It's not a waste of your time. And then, combining some of those insights that I got with other with previous customer conversations, really said, hey, look, there are these these ideas, these thoughts, these common phrases that people are using. And something that I picked up to is, you know, like I think sometimes as marketers, when we get two, three, four steps removed from the customer, from what they're doing on a day to day basis, it can be easy to forget that they're people. Right, like they're like somewhere and are one of our customers is just sitting in their Home Office, just like you and I are right now, and and they have a guitar hanging up...

...on the back of their wall, right, and that doesn't mean I'm going to go talk to them about like, Hey, what's up, you know kind of guitars that we like to play, whatever, but I think there's something in speaking to them like their people, right, and not saying we're this big mega entity talking to your big mega entity. Yeah, and these are the like the soup cans that were using to communicate with one another. It's about like let's kind of like talk to people, you know how they are, and and so one of the more interesting experiments that we've been running and testing is what if all this stuff that I've learned about copywriting and whether it's in direct response or, you know, you read in the books or whatever, it is about like the Ogilvie on advertising, you know, the like, Hey, just talk, you know, plane speak, you know these types of things. What if we actually did that? You know, you know, and marketing. All's obvious, but it's not right. I mean we all run into two advertising, into blog writing. That's the feels very stilted, very formal, as if that was how we had a conversation about it when we read it, and it's not. Think that is like why is it that, if there's so many marketers who know so many things? I mean, look, there was no copywriting class. I must have missed that day or the day where they were like here's interest between the mansion and Revenue Marketing and Growth Marketing and performance marketing. Like I was absent that day too, I guess. Yeah, but why is it that you think that there's this block between all these people who know so much? They are ton of passionate marketers, but there seems to be a glut of like really good marketing. Yeah, look, I think one of the things I've seen recently is that everyone has an opinion about marketing. Right, everyone believes that they know something. This goes up to the executive level. When you see companies that do it really well, they also are often the companies where the executives are talking on social media just like they normally speak right, like it's a part of the actual brand. So they have these kind of formal, stilted brands and you know, that's how they write their blog posts because it has to kind of fall in line with you know, if the CEO saw that, would she freaked out and say that doesn't sound like us. We don't talk like that. As a company, maybe that's true, but as an individual, do you talk like that? Absolutely, we don't talk like, you know, weird robots. That's not how we have a conversation. Yeah, and you're totally right. And you come back to the sales thing. If we think about you know, if the salesperson is at a networking event, how were they talking about what we do? Yeah, we're right. How do they explain it? So this one email campaign that that, I think, was one of the more interesting things that we've done in terms of results, and our approach was around them organomics, right, and so the idea was, like a lot of companies have people working from home and a lot of you know, I mean you and I are both lucky enough...

...to have desks and chairs, right, and the space, but some people, you know, I've been on calls of people like they're on their couch, they're in their bed, you know. And so we have a service, or were like a look, we can do these virtual assessments where we can take a look at at these remote work setups and and try to help you, like all right, this is a potential hazard, this might cause, you know, some problems for you down the line, and so it's something that can get. It can get very robotic, right, you can get very like, you know, technical mechanical, and so when we were putting together the email campaign for this, we said, look, you know, we can take kind of the approach that that we normally would, which is not bad, where we were like Hey, look, seventy five percent of people are working from home right now. It's estimated that this percentage will continue working from home, and so, you know, we're doing the quote unquote right things. We're using some stats up front, we're kind of making it relevant to their business. So we did one like that and we split it tested against another email and this one opened up. It said, hey, we probably caught you in the miliar work day at home. You might be hunch of your counter, you might have your laptop propped up in your lap on your couch, just that perfect setup. But how's your neck feel? How's your back? What's your posture like? And so we went from this like we're talking about this, you know, general thing that might be happening. We're like, we're Ben we're talking to like you as a person. Yeah, and so we tested these against each other. It was for a white paper that we did and this one was it was straight to the PDF right. So there wasn't there was no other friction sort of people to hop through there, and the email that was speaking directly to the people like people. It got eighty five percent more clickthroughs than the more traditional email that we did. And you know, you're talking about executives and executive support and everything. I did. You know, before we did this, I went to some people and I was like, look, this might seem crazy and you're going to read this either, like yeah, what is this guy on about? But I got support. They were like yeah, you know what, let's try it out. As I mean like we might be a compy that's about the turn eighty, but there's definitely like look, we're always trying to be progressive and push it forward and try these new things. And from the marking side, that's what I see my job as. Let's try to push the boundary. So I had support to run this test, and not from the executives but from other people when I was kind of like just fishing on, like hey, how does this sound? You has look to you? Somebody read the test email and they're like this is feels weird, this isn't how we talk, and I was like that's exactly the point. You get it. And in terms of the outcomes of it, yeah, I mean, look, we got our content in front of more eyeballs, right, which is why, you know, we create it, we write it, so people will read it and then they know about us more, they understand what we do interesting how we can help them. I took away a few things from there. I was like, look, let's obviously keep doing this, let's keep having these kinds of experiments when we're able some of the subject matter that we talked about. You know, unfortunately you can't get as playful with it right right now we have some campaigns going on around mental health...

...and it's not something exactly you want to joke about, yeah, or be, as you know, playful, like I said, but there's an opportunity to, you know, hit it the emotional part of it, which can be tough. You know, it takes some thought and take some planning to do that. But you know, it told me like hey, let's keep trying this out, let's keep testing it out, and we've been doing something similar on social media as well. So I came up with this. It's a magical ratio. I totally made it up. It's called the U to we ratio and it's whenever we we write something or it together, it's like, all right, let's look at this. Let's look at how many times we say we, meaning us, we ie, our company, whatever that is, versus how many times we we're talking about you, your company, the customers name. The ratio I came up with is three or four, two, one. Let's based on nothing, right. I just is like this. It just feels right that you should say you or your versus me. Mine hours you're seeing four to one. Yeah, sure, three hundred and forty one, yeah, for yeah, okay, yeah, and I mean and it's you know, you don't want to force it right, but the point is, it's not talking about us, it's not making us the heroes of the story, it's making you the hero of your story. Here's your challenge, here's what you might be thinking, here's what we're hearing that you want. And you know there's a some tact to that, of course. You know, you don't want to be shoving down people's throats like exactly how you feel, like this, you're like this, you're like that, but you know it takes some of the educate yourself from the market. And it was the reader. WHO's the audience? Who's The you know, in your case, of the listener. Right, you want to make sure that you're putting on something good for your audience, then put it together in a way that speaks to them. Even on social media, you know, we're seeing that some of our you know, just the little metricstre in there, right, engagement rate, so it's a little bit higher. You know, the click theres are seeing, it's a little bit higher. It was just about putting more of what we create in front of people with this little friction as possible. Sure, I imagine that, even in those cases where you're you're working on more sensitive subject matter like mental health, that one of the phrases that you said from your original email before the test email, was it's estimated that right like the very impersonal, unusual way to phrase things. Can you imagine saying in a normal conversation another human it's estimated that right like? That's not a turn of phrase we use. So it's not necessarily that you're making everything more playful, though I think that playful emails are really clever test and a very useful I mean, ergonomics is a perfect example of something that's very universal. Anybody working from home is struggling with it at some level. I mean that totally makes sense that you can run that playful version, but even just removing some of the stuffy phrasing that doesn't make any human sense. I'm a sure that's what you're applying in other places as well. You're exactly...

...right. But yeah, I mean we're not being interviewed by the FBI like there's no like Supreme Court sitting there, yeah, going like what's to deal with this? Like it's estimated that twenty percent of the United States population suffers from some kind of mental illness. Like it's not like that and it's just about making a connection, you know, like you said, look, are we perfect at it? No, right, we're small marketing team. We're trying to put out a high enough of a name of content to to, you know, make sure that all of our teams, all of our people, have a plenty to work with. But it's something that we're constantly working on, constantly trying to get better at. How can we be a system around this and share some muscle, you know? Yeah, and thinking about the team there. I know you've got a pretty small marketing team. Do you work with any agencies? Do you outsource any work? I mean, is it all just ten of the three of you, or is there some work that you're handing over to others and getting back from them? So? So, within broad spire we have the three people that I've taught to you about. The Crawford corporate level there's a corporate marketing team. We work with them on creative support, communications support, that's where we don't call it marketing ops, but that's where marketing upsets. So that's you know, we have them to tap into a bunch of really, you know, cool, talented people to work with them within broad spire, even people who don't sit within marketing formally. You know, I think it was the book rework. There's this thing that just says like everything is marketing, and I think that's true, and not to say that I think marketing is this like big giant important thing, but I think I'm going to butcher this quote by somebody I don't know, I can't remember who it was. It was like a marketing is too important just to be left to marketing. So there are others in the organization who know that. They help in different ways. When we have some video guy, guys that sit in a not marketing department but but they're producing this type of content, we have the sales ops area who help provide, you know, similar kind of support. So so you know, we got to get resourceful. Yeah, as a team and as a company. And and I think it's another thing too, where you go back to it and you say, Oh man, it would be great to just have this like big giant marketing organization and those are great and it would be awesome, you know, to have that. But at the same time I'm also talking to people in many different parts to company all the time. Yeah, you know that. There there are no silos. So, in terms of going back to your question about agencies, no, there are no, no agencies that we work with. Are Able to wrangle support though, across many facets of the organization, which is huge. Yeah, that's wonder right. Gosh, I'd kill for a video person right. Well, if you've got some video folks who aren't strictly marketing assets, how can you loop them in? How can you leverage, you know, some of their time? That totally makes sense, totally well. Appreciate you coming on and sharing what you guys are...

...learning, what you're building, which you've, you know, been changing as you're experiencing, you know, that relationship growth between sales and marketing. I'm curious, thinking about maybe your industry relative to marketing or not, what are some things that you think folks should stop doing that they're currently doing or start doing that they're not yet doing? We've been talking about how there's it's a little bit slower to adopt some of these changes. But if you could pick one thing that you see all the time, maybe from your competitors for example, or something some folks out there who are or tangentially related to the space. Yeah, what are some things you just say, oh my gosh, we got to stop doing this people, or we really got to start doing that. Yeah, so I would say to all our competitors who are doing things that I think we should stop doing, actually keep doing that, please you. You know. I think you know, whether it's in our industry or related industries, let's keep trying to stop talking about ourselves and let's focus more really onto the problems that our customers and clients are trying to solve. Who they're trying to solve, you know, these problems for, and I'd say that, you know, not even just strictly related to to my industry, but like you, I got a lot of friends in marketing and everywhere. I would say, like you know, let's think about them first. And you know, another thing too, is try to think about the big goal, right, like think about, you know, which is probably going to be revenue, right, but how can we help have an impact throughout that funnel for the revenue. How can we drive growth from wherever we sit and ask all those questions, you know, be like how does this relate and help drive growth? And sometimes it might be a loose connection and be to be especially if you're part of a large organization. But really keep trying to push and push and push for that as I think that's where we're going to find the most success. I think that's where we'll get more of that good marketing instead of the some of the check the box type stuff that seems to come out. Yeah, no, I agree. All right, final question here. If you had two times the staff, the budget or the time, what would you choose and what would you do with it? I would say staff. If I could staff up with, you know, some of the really quality people that I work with today, you know, duplicate some of them. I think that's priceless. It's always going to be great to get more distribution, to get more AD budget tip, to put more behind it, but at some point you got to have a good fire to pour that fuel onto and where I am right now, where I'm sitting at it, I think and it would be great to have a team of people who were all working in unison. We're going the same things to come up with tight, consistent messaging for every single one of our products, for all...

...of our sub products, you know, to work on creating a good narrative, to creating those good success stories around all of those and then I think if we even working with the the channels and the distribution options and the budget that we have right now, the good content will find its way through. Yeah, and our team will just be will be better equipped when there enzos, one and twenty one or one too few, you know type of scenarios. So, yeah, I got to go with people. Yeah, that makes sense. I like that. I like that answer. Well, Chris, thanks for joining us. If people want to, you know, go follow you online or interact with you, where should they find you? What platforms do you spend the most time on or how do they reach you? Yeah, so, you know Linkedin, Chris Stevenson, linkedincom slash and Chris G Stevenson. Okay, I have twitter. It moves so fast, but yeah, Linkedin is the spot from Europe. Okay, awesome. And and if they want to learn more about the company and what you all are doing, where do they go? Choose broad spirecom. Broad spires Linkedin page where we have our you know, constant flow of stuff that we've got coming out multiple times a week. Awesome, very good. Well, Chris, thanks again for joining us. We really appreciate it all. Thanks for exu appreciate it was fun. Thanks for listening to growth marketing camp. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you would give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to get a little more inspiration for their next campaign. If you want to learn more about the company behind the show, had to open sinsecom. That's open. SKENES ECOM. Will catch you on the next episode.

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