Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 65 · 3 months ago

How Outside Helps People Live a Healthier and Happier Life with Zenia Johnson

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Zenia Johnson, Director of Performance Marketing at Outside, walks us through an average week in her shoes on this week's episode of Growth Marketing Camp.

Zenia shares what the performance marketing team is responsible for (& in her words, the important skills), how they align with the rest of the company (& company goals), and how to build genuine relationships in a remote world.

Zenia also shares her love for Twitter, how she contributes to an inclusive and diverse POV, and why she always starts her weekly meetings with a joke. If you want to experience a day in her shoes, tune into the episode!

Welcome to growth marketing camp, podcast powered by open sense, where we sit down with leaders and founders from diverse backgrounds and marketing tech and beyond to explore what it takes to build a leading brand that's shaving the world of B two B. Let's get into it. Hey, everyone, welcome to another exciting episode of Growth Marketing Camp. I'm your host for today, jazz binning. This week we welcome Zenia Johnson, who is currently the director of performance marketing and outside. Zenia, it's great to have you on the show. Shout out to the Wonderful Hillary read. You, guys, check out episode fifty three if you haven't. She raped so much about you and I know how busy you've been, so thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I would be remiss if I did not say the correct pronunciation is Zania. Think of the country Tanzania, minus the Tan Oh, okay, in that case, I absolutely love that, and now like for me examples stick. It took me thirty three years to come up with that. Tanzani and minus the tanning. It was so helpful in school and I just it really would have so my full name is just scunn and I go by Jazz. A lot of people can't roll the R and I used to get like Jasker in I used to get get Jakarta and I was like Damn. From elementary school up until high school I kept my full name and for some reason, I don't know why, my family and my friends would Um, they would call me by my nickname jazz, but for some reason I just didn't want to correct anyone. And now whenever someone says because, I go by jazz, but if someone says jazz, I'm like no, no, it's jazz. Yeah, yeah, but like names. Thank you so much for for correcting me. Some talk. I know you mentioned uh. I Know Hillary introduced us. So you were working with Hillary before? Yeah, Hillary has been just and in credible friend and mentor. We worked together at three Q digital. Um. I was there a couple of years ago. I don't even maybe two years at this point is what is time. We worked really closely together and we've just been friends and stayed in contact ever since. And when I started my career, Um, I actually didn't start at three q but when I started at three Q um I had been in digital marketing for about three years at that point and I hadn't really done a lot of, you know, personal branding or any sort of events or, you know, anything like that. And you know, as a woman of color, it can be really hard to get accepted into a lot of roles, speaking roles and speaking gigs, and Hillary, from the start was a champion and she was like Z, you're great, you have a lot of things to say. I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things, which could be right, could be wrong. You know, I can't help it. I have things to say, and she's like, you know you, I'm gonna Champion you, and she's done that, you know, since we've met and she's just been great. I love that and and that's also the sense that I got from Hillary when I had the conversation. She is such a strong woman and some of the stuff that we ended up talking about it's like like, as a woman of color, I will tell you, and I have a couple of questions later, because I know this is definitely something you're passionate about kind of working in working in tech as a woman in Tech. Already right, there's there's a lot that you have to deal with because you're mostly working with guys. I was working in crypto before, so that was like tense. It can imagine the kind of people that kind I'm working with here. It's a little bit it's a little bit different, right, but all them, adding the fact that we are women of color adds another layer of kind of complexity that not a lot of people realize. And it's funny. I recently started posting on Linkedin, but part of the reason why I didn't feel like, man, I don't know if I have, you know, something valuable to add. My...

...feed is constantly just it's it's people that look the same and I remember when I had a conversation with someone about, Hey, I want to start sharing some stuff too. It's like, let's you know, the people of color should be getting themselves out there more, posting a little bit more to make it more comfortable for everybody else. But since I started and started following other people, now my feet looks so different than what it was the core and I love that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I've also found it really helpful. I'm very active on twitter and, Oh God, please, people don't find me on twitter, because a lot of my post lately I've been arguing about books. But there's this wonderful, Um, diverse community of digital marketers on twitter as well. Um, there's a PPC chat and where there are, you know, live chats every Thursday. I believe they are, Um, a really robust S C O Community, which I'm not a s C O, but you know, there's a lot of overlapping, more learnings and skills and and things that we can learn from each other and insights. So, yeah, social media has really been a great place to find like minded marketers of color and to really curate, you know, the learnings and their experiences that they have, which, you know, a lot of times do resonate and kind of just help me feel validated and like the things that I'm feeling and, you know, the things that I'm seeing and experience and in my day to day. Yeah. Well, Um, I will, after this cold find you on twitter and I will follow you and I can tap into some of those communities to so you got you're currently working at outside. Tell me a little bit about what outside is, what do you do and for whom? Yeah, so, outside is the leading resource for active lifestyle content. I am the director of performance marketing and you know, we like I said, we are the leading resource for active lifestyle content. Have a pretty wide book of brands where you know whether you are the novice or you're the expert, and you're given activity or sport. We have something for you, Um, whether that's video content or editorial content. We have mapping APPS so that if you want to go for a hype or if you want to go for a bike ride, Um, guy, a gps or trophorks can enable you to engage in those activities safely, and we bundled all of that up into this incredible membership targeting everyone. So you said, who was like your ideal customers? Everybody. I think that, speaking from personal experience, we're digital marketers. We are in front of a computer, in front of a screen all day. A lot of times I'll take a, quote unquote, break from work and I get on twitter and that's my break and one it's like, oh, I'm learning, and I'm like, you know, learning from the marketing community and seeing how these ads look in real time, and or I'm on another social platform, because we should know about those platforms in order to stay ahead of the curve and see how things work. But we're in front of these screens all the time and not really living in the moment and in again, this is like just from personal experience. So that's why I really felt like being it outside was just the right move for me. Um, our goal was to get everybody outside, you know, get away from your screens. Even a little bit of time spent outside, thirty minutes, can have a really significant impact on your mental health and well being. So our goal was to really encourage folks give them the resources, regardless of where you are in your life, where you might live geographically, whether you are indeed a person of color who you know, historically in this country and also in Canada, these outdoor spaces have not been inclusive and welcoming places for us. So, regardless of who you are and where you are, really giving you the resources and the ability to get out that. Oh,...

I love that, and I love the fact that it sounds like outside is also invested in their own team, you know, getting out and and I'm sure you know you can share a little bit on the culture and what that looks like, if the if the pillars are actually communicated out to the team, because I for share no same same like you, especially since you're working from home. Way less chance for you to actually turn off work if I stopped working on my computer. My break also involves. Um, I had downloaded Tiktok like a year ago and learned about the platform and not be like a dinosaur marketer and actually understand what's the kind of content and man, that was the worst decision that I made because I started, I downloaded it to learn about the platform and I downloaded it as a marketer. But now I'm just like, I'm laughing you know, I'm laughing constantly. I'm looking at the videos, I'm sending it to to my people and they're like, jazz, what's what is wrong with you? Exactly, yeah, same, same thing, and and then it feels like, okay, I'm enjoying this right a download Tiktok, because I did the same thing. I actually I think I had to have one of my interns at the time give me like a little like walk through or or visualization, like what is this platform? What's the best way to engage with the folks here? But you want to stay on top of everything and you realize that translates to eleven hours that you are like in front of a screen and just what sort of impact is that having on your mental health and, you know, how are you feeling as a result of all of that inactive time? MHM, no, that's cool. Um. And then you are leading the performance breaketing team. What does that team look like? How is it structured and how does it fit into the rest of the company? Yeah, so our marketing organ is really the the pillar of membership and driving results for the business. So we have a whole dedicated creative team, creative resources. We are very much functioning as like a growth marketing org. So we're very close knit team. We're very tight team. We meet very frequently and regularly and I think we are starting to get a lot better about breaking core folks into the room and empowering everyone to make a decision in real time. So, of course, informed by data, but just so that we're not, you know, hampered down by, you know, needing approval from this person or this person. Um, as long as we are making a really good, you know, decision and it's something that we will be able to learn from. Leadership has really been great about empowering us to to move and, you know, make decisions and and share the results. One thing that's really fantastic about my team. Um, so, my vp of marketing, he's P J rubies. He is leading a whole team with women. It's me and a bunch of other women and we are all very loud and very opinionated and we feel empowered to be that way because of, you know, him, the way that other leaders here at the company really just value our voices and put us forward. We him and I we've had our relationship prior to me being it outside. So it's really just been a great experience being able to work with him and being able to work with this team in really incredible women. It's it's been great. That's awesome. Yeah, I work Um in my marketing team right now. It is a team of women and, Um, it's very diverse, like we we have different personalities, different skill sets and strengths and I love it. I historically mostly worked, because I've been in tech my whole life, I mostly worked in like male dominant spaces, mostly with guys, and it's always like it's it's fun and it's interesting to be working with people like with you know in company. That's that balances that and balanced diversity. So that's cool to hear and you mentioned your Um, you guys have focused as memberships. Would you say that's your team's kind of primary focus and top goals? To drive membership absolutely outside our guiding stars, to get people outside right and...

...how do you do that? Well, we get our incredible content and our resources in front of people, Um, and part of that is membership. We do have like a pretty wide birth of or a wide variety of content that is available for free, but we have really fantastic like documentary content, again, like the APPS and whatnot. In order to enable like premium Um users, user usability of the APPS, you have to have the membership. So yeah, are our goal is really to drive membership to our target demos. Now what we've been doing, starting to do, is really post more into cultural events. So, for example, right now the Tour de France is happening. So Um, we have this really incredible biking for all campaign where we're really talking about, you know, biking. You know biking can be for everyone. biking is not just for someone who ever just twenty miles a day it. You know, it can take many shapes and forms. You have a child, you have a dog, you want to the story. You live in an urban environment. You live in a in a rural environment surrounded by mountains. So, yeah, we're really tapping into these cultural moments and figuring out how we can make our brand resonating that way and really aligning with specific activities at bolts like age and and, of course, as you know, alive with seasonality and whatnot. No, I love that. So, zooming in a little bit on you, I've got a fun question your performance market. You've got six years of experience under your belt. I'm sure your family, your husband, your your parents, they know what you do. How would they describe what you specifically do? Uh So, my husband, Melissa, would say that, UM, because I've been marketing my whole wife and well, Oh my God, my whole wife six years. That feels like my whole life because I've been in marketing for, you know, most of my adult career. He would probably say something along the lines of, you know, chill, capitalistic goods for the book my career and now I'm more engaging in more meaningful marketing. My parents and my grandparents, oh my gosh, well, she does something on the Internet. I think it's something with the facebooks. It would be. Yeah, that is exactly what my grandparents would say if they were, if they were around, and Uh my dad would probably say something similar to them what you just described, and then my husband would just say, yeah, you just you talk a lot. You're talking because I'm talking me on meetings and sometimes, you know, I'll even come out of it and I have a I'm the kind of person that has a lot of social battery. But sometimes they'll like, especially working from home, it's like, man, I just want to put my eyebrows down. I've never heard that before. I want to put my eyebrows dam indeed, or I should just get, you know, actually invest in some Botox. Keba rose up all the time. They're gonna happen, just not now. Let Les's effort. Yeah, it's we it's way less effort, but that I call it. I rose up and, however, rose down. I tried to describe it to one of my coworkers. He's like what God like? Don't do it like you don't have your own face and then your face chancel. And he's like, okay, so everyone, but I'm glad that you I'm glad that you get it. What I meant by I brows up. I know exactly what you make like look at it. They're up right now. I realized earlier today I was on one of our marketing calls and I turned my video off and I'm still I was speaking with one of my coworkers who I'm really close with, and I was being very expressive, you know, to demonstrate that I was, because I think that if you just heard the tone, it might have seen a little like Oh, that's a little snippy. But I was making the face with it too, and then I realized my camera was off. He didn't. I would,...

...but yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I've roused up and then it just demonstrates a whole totally different like yeah, now do you now you have a name for it too, and then there's gonna be two of US using that. You can high level walk me through like in a week in your shoes, boy. All right. So we're not gonna say it's cute for it, because Q for we all know how that can go. So typically, you know, a standard week, I'll come in, I'll look at reporting. Performance has been pretty volatile lately, especially with the ongoing changes with facebook and instagram. So we've been conducting a few experiments to try to really dig deep and find insights into, you know, what is working well on Facebook, and I G we're using a lot of last attribution data to optimize because we're not seeing like a lot of those front and view through conversions translate into you know, direct revenue. So I would come in early in the week, check in with the team, tell a couple of jokes, uh, and then, you know, start digging into reboarding. We do have some marketing alignment meetings. That happen around Tuesday or Wednesday and then, you know, at that point, checking in with our agency, having a meeting with them and talking about, you know, what are key opportunities. Um, here are test status is right now. Um, you know, we're running two to three different tests at a time, getting a pulse on what those tests are looking like, what the direction is, whether we need to pivot or stay the course, and then from there a lot of forward planning. So we as an organization are starting to be Um or just get totally aligned with, you know, forward planning. We have a new CMO, Dmitri Siegel. He's fantastic and he's really been keeping us in step with okay, here's what we're all working on as an organization. Here's how your work ladders up to our goals as an entire ord Um. So thinking forwardly about, you know, what we're working on, what resources we might need to pull in to enable that work. Writing briefs. Of course, I don't think anybody likes to write a brief, but you know, it's starting to we're a pretty big organ and it's just, you know, realizing that, in order to make sure we have the right people pulled into a project, getting everybody aligned on the same page from the start of a campaign, launch or test is really key. Uh Well, yeah, just brief writing, looking at performance, ideating on future tests and projects and campaigns and, you know, really trying to figure out how I can connect with my coworkers, even though we are all working from Romement totally different spaces, and I think we probably we do a pretty good job of that on a weekly basis. So yeah, yeah, I love it and I love the first thing you shared is like you crack some jokes. That's favorite because I love that. I do that to the moment Monday hits and I get my team on a call. The person I do is like someone's gonna Stop Me. They gotta hold me back because I won't stop. You mentioned something and I've always been a little bit interested, especially Um, you know, I'm sure you guys have a volume of like a lot of traffic that you guys are measuring. You mentioned that you're, you know, constantly running tests. So how long do your test run on average before you guys decide all right, it's time to pivot? A few weeks, a few months? Does it depend on like a certain do you guys have a threshold for how much data that you want to consume before you make a decision? Yeah, I think ideally we want to hit statistical significance across the board just to make sure the tests are validated and we feel fully confident in the results. But you can't always, you know, hits that Sig you know, I think it depends on the how high stakes the test is, um how much impact it will...

...have to the or but typically I like to at least reach statistical significance before pivoting or turning away and and changing direction or, you know, causing a test totally. So yeah, I think it just depends. But are the way. I do make sure that we document every test that we're running we have like a test tracker so that, if you know, I have a terrible memory, three months from now I might totally forget, you know, what tests we've run. So just making sure that I can go back and say, okay, we did that, this is exactly who we targeted, this is the message that we're in and these are the results that were driven. So yeah, you know, regardless of whether we hits that Sig, just feeling some measure of confidence and making sure that we're documenting everything that we're doing. Alright, alright, cool. And Uh, for you, specifically in your role, besides humor, what are some other important skills that you think of performance markers should have, especially when the team? Yeah, I think that, you know, there are soft skills and their hard skills. Right, I've managed some teams and pass roles where I've had a team and, you know, maybe six people and you know you're dealing with the very diverse range of personality types and different types of communication styles. Um, so being able to be empathetic, I think, is super important, just as a manager and as someone who wants to really connect with their colleagues because, you know, even if I'm not a manager, I do always, you know, look for that connection and you know, that way that we can communicate and enjoy working with each other while we're doing it. Right. Um, so empathy. But I guess we can talk about a couple of hard skills. So being able to translate well, first being able to look at data and figuring out what the numbers are saying and then translating that into a story. And I think one thing that has been a little difficult for me as I continue to grow in the role is figuring out how that story should be told depending on who I'm speaking to. Right so my direct manager might want to have data or numbers of the story presented in a way differently from someone at the C suite. So just being able to, you know, really widen that skill set and being able to, you know, tell that story differently or or tell a story and slides when you may not always be there to give the voice over. I think is is a really important skill. Am I missing anything? Jas No. So even the second one that you just shared. I think that is so underrated and you don't think about that often. Yeah, that you know whatever you're communicating to your director. If if you've got a board of investors. They want something totally different. If you're communicating something to a VP on your you know, on a different team, totally different conversation. And then you also have to take into consideration what kind of person. We recently did a disk survey and then I'm learning about the kind of person right someone who, like I'm a high I, which means I like to have lots of context, I like details. Um, I'm also very fluid. There's other people who are like high seas and they basically want just data out, short and sweet. I don't want any any additional context. Um, high D is like absolutely no extra words, just you know. So I want to. I do this earlier. And then they're in these certain positions and you have to communicate project updates or campaign updates to them and it's like, okay, I'm now having to communicate it to this person also, this role. Also, I'm taking my data and I'm taking kind of the story and I'm having to tell it in all of these different ways, just just being a marketer. Youn't know absolutely. You know what, you just reminded me of. One more skill, project management. U. You know, I don't think I've been very lucky. You know, in my career here to work with some really fantastic people who have...

...either taught me or, like, really pushed me to take on project management tools or processes. Like I was just speaking on one of my coworkers right before you, when I were speaking Rebecca about how her love of project management tools have just really helped me to, you know, make sure that I'm keeping tracking, documenting and, you know, staying on top of things. Yeah, I mean without project management, especially when you are working with an agency and maybe a creative team and then other internal stakeholders, having a process in place is so important. It's so important. Agree with you on that, and that perfect position to my next question. What are some tools? And you mentioned you guys are using project management tools. What are some other tools that are indispensable to your job? Kah, well, okay, Asana, I said that begrudgingly. For for years I was this is not intuitive and it's a pain in my foot and I am very much a like write it down and cross it off. person. It's very fulfilling to me. And what you know, at some point you have to go back weeks and look at, you know, notes from something and it just gets to be a little overwhelming. So now you know, in order to have that immediate fulfillment of crossing something off but also being confident that I'm documented everything where it needs to be, I use a sonic and a notebook. I think as you scale your digital marketing programs, some sort of, you know, tool to pull reporting is absolutely key. So right now we're using funnel I oh Um, which is sort of like, you know, it pulls across the various platforms and it just pulls, you know, your conversions and your data and all that good stuff. Super Metrics, we've also used something like that before, submetric. Supermetrics is great. And then, just from a Martek standpoint, additional Martek. Then it depends on like what you're running and what your goals are. You know, if you're doing a lot of mobile, then a tool like APPS, fire or mobile attribution platforms be absolutely necessary so that you're, you know, really running your campaigns with all of the data points that you need in order to make, Sayn decisions Um. And then maybe a reporting visualization tool as well, like tableau, which sometimes can be duplicative to something like super metrics. Are Funny. Oh, but a lot of times if you're tracking like last click conversions or you know you have a more advanced marketing or a more advanced attribution funnel, having something in place that you know, sort of de dups your conversions as they come in. And then how do you learn about like new tools and stuff? Is it through recommendations from other marketers, through Linkedin? Just you know, how do you stay up to date on tools and trends and stuff? Gosh, I really try to avoid linkedin. It's just, you know, I like to ingest my if I'm not actively looking at a marketing news that I'm I'm I'm signed up for a few marketing newsletters like btcy, Um Marketing Brew and a few others in the reforged program Um. So I talked to a lot of Um, really smart people there. Have a couple of mentors, including Hillary, who I speak with now. If I'm not doing that actively, then I don't really go on linkedin because then it's like I'm I'm I'm like literally here just for work and professional again, I don't like to spend a lot of funds on so if I'm ingesting my marketing learning on social media is gonna be on accident it's gonna be on twitter. Um, there's like a lot of fun bantering between you know some of the conversation that that's happening. So yeah, really like mentor ship. I think is super important and I've been super...

...lucky and being able to form relationships with Super Smart folks. I don't know have any time. It just says super and the last lardy seconds. But Um, the menstorship newsletters and then, yeah, you know, the accidental tweet. I by the way, I say the word love constantly because I hear my I love everything. I was gonna say. I love, Um, the mentorship piece because it's so important to have that and it's honestly like to have a conversation, even if it's like to go grab coffee with someone that used to work with that you consider a mentor an idol, or if they've got a newsletter or something and you've subscribed to it and you try to follow and subscribe to you know their thoughts and, Um, you know how they how this person overcomes challenges. That is so important and probably one of the best tools to stay up to date on trends versus, you know, sitting through Social Media Linkedin. There's constantly new tactics and tools that are being shared. especially if someone's only goal in Linkedin is to just like grow their numbers, then you know, every single recommendation will just be part of their tactic to just grow their audience. That's it. Yeah, view my tap ten tricks to, you know, extend revenue by you know, yes and yeah, let's shift topics to something and then we'll move over to rapid fire. But I know you're extremely passionate about diversity, representation and inclusion and digital marketing. Talk to me about this kind of what are your thoughts on, you know, what people can be doing to empower a more diverse kind of community online and what you are doing personally? Yeah, mentorship, which we just talked about, but I think it could probably be a little difficult, you know, at this point to engage in mentorship when everyone's working from home. That has been the one thing that, you know, has really helped too, continue to grow on my career and I have actively tried to provide, you know, that same sort of mentorship, even though it doesn't always look, you know, like from a digital marketing perspective, even just you know, big a big brother or a big sister to someone. Um, there are a few programs that I've participated in the past. But yeah, I think mentorship is absolutely important and then holding your your organization accountable. I think that, as you know, if you look around the room and you find that, you know, it's not very diverse from a you know, race or gender or, you know, socio economic perspective, whatever, Um, geographic perspective, calling that out, especially if you are a member of the majority, you know, you come from this position of power where you can say something. You can say, Hey, you know, I notice that there are not a lot of women in this room. Hey, everyone around this table with the White Guy. We need to we need to do something about that, and I don't necessarily think that that's something that you know, you or I should be doing all the time. A lot of that work should be on the other people in the room. So, yeah, yeah, I love that and it's kind of it's kind of it takes a certain level of bravery, but given everything that's happened, especially people who fit within the majority, I think that now I'm starting to see even on Um Linkedin, people share more, the majority sharing more, and that takes like a certain level of bravery. It's like yeah, do it, like share more and don't be afraid of it, especially if you're helping other people around you, because to put the onus, on the people of Color, to constantly be the ones to share and almost ends up being like Oh, it's just you Um be like a company wide thing. It should be. It should be embedded into the culture exactly. And you know, I think that we sot outside. We you know, I've had a third party come in...

...and, you know, basically doing audit of our D and I policies, and she actually gave a great presentation this week on like here are the areas that, you know, I found six months ago where you all were, you know, sort of behind or you could actively improve. Here's where you are according to those goals you know today, and then here are some other areas where you can continue to grow Um and other areas where you can optimize. And I don't think I was, I don't even know if I was at outside when she was initially Um engaged with the business, but it was just really fantastic to see that, you know, something like that was actively going on in the background and then we have in all hands and she's there to present the findings and, you know, the organs continuously investing in network. Really hardening to see because I think a lot of times organizations or leaders will say that they are actively interested or invested in something but not actually put the time or the money behind it. Yeah, so definitely I've seen and I've worked in both companies who are actually actively invested and who are just invested in us, you know, to be able to share stats, their diversity stats, before the next like best place to work report comes around. Exactly. Yeah, like the work is happening last minute when there's gonna be a big push. In reality, the work needs to happen all the time and everyone needs to fill empower to speak about it. I mean, as an example, um, someone at our org recently share, like, very publicly with the company that, you know, they were experiencing a mental health crisis, and it was stayed in in a way. It was so brave. It was stated in a way where it was like, I feel comfortable sharing with you all. You know, here are my boundaries, here's what I need going forward. You know, if this happens, then know that you know at Swazi and I'm just like wow, you know, that's it's brave. It's something that, you know, we think of diversity, we think of gender, race, you know, like I said, income, social background, you know, ability, and now there is you know, we've been talking a lot more as a as a culture or about mental health, but staying it actively engaged was just really great. So and it's like the beauty of that that person who was able to share that is a lot of work for a long period of time from the team and outside for creating that culture exam otherwise it wouldn't feel comortable. It's kind of like, Um, a lot of companies are using some of this stuff as like they're, you know, when when it's trending. So this year I'm sure you saw on social right, if you're on instagram or Tiktok or twitter, people were just making fun of all right, it's it's pride month and all the all the companies are gonna Start Having rainbolt loosh. I remember literally this here everyone's calling it out, but up until almost a couple of years ago, companies Tam teams thought that was the appropriate thing to do. But then it's like hey, it's trending, let's latch on let's do some initiatives with international women's month. Let's latch on, let's do some let's do the same thing. So it's like, you know, in and out and you just keep breaking and so it's nice to see people calling it out because it actually, I think, broke the pattern a little bit. Yep, I have this. Then you one of my favorite Um series of tiktok's and the guy who would creating like the ad content around. That's Oh my God, it's so funny. I'm say, please send it, please send it. The last question before I moved to rapid fire. What is one book you'd recommend to your audience and why? Oh my God, don't you do that to me. So I was a major and I don't know if you can see, like yeah, the books, like books are like my main decorating feature, because not only can I pick of a book anywhere in my house, but also now...

I have, you know, some height to this lamp or this plant. Um. All right, well, let's do I never have a professional recommendation. I don't ingest a lot of nonfiction. Occasionally I do. I did just read and you see me looking around. UH, my goal is near fifty three books. I'm ahead of schedule. Oh my God, Jas, I wish you had told me that we were gonna just now. I'm thinking too much. Well, here's one. It's summertime, it's fun read. Actually have a jacket right here, but I just finished it and Um, seven days in June. It is a romance novel. Now there is a woman owned bookstore, Um Romance Bookstore, within about fifteen minutes driving distance to my house, and I I've been thinking a lot about romance as a genre because, you know, typically the writers are female. Because of that, it's under Vale, you you know, very much like Um, like y a. You know, Um Romance and y a really cover some hard hitting themes and thoughts and topics that you know might not be as well discussed in a different genre. So yeah, I am here to say we should value all genres of literature and that romance can be considered literature and that everyone should read Senna days in June by Tia Williams. It was fantastic. It talked, the protagonist was a woman who had, like a not visible disability, and there was a lot of childhood trauma there and the trauma that mothers can pass down to their children and how those traumas then manifest and like the relationships that you know, women engage and going forward. It's a great read and also it's summertime, so I love it. And you know you're a pro reader when you when you take a jack get off of your books, when you tell when you have the jacket, I'm like yeah, for sure. I used to work. I've worked part time in a bookstore up until right before the pandemic Um along with being at the agency just because I needed the discount. You got advanced reader copies. It was, it was, it was incredible. Don't tell anybody here at outside, but it was one of the best jobs I've ever had. But I love that. I Love Bookstores and I love coffee shops. I used to joke when I when I um when I was first like in university, it was like I hope that I find the love of my life in a bookstore, like I'm picking out a book and then we make eye contact and I like, I would love that. Ended up being university, which is way better than like, you know, tinder or anything like that right now, thank God, before that, the Swiping opps. Now I see what we're writing and I'm like, you guys just say you met at like, you know, indigo or chapter vs right, and one one of my friends actually uses that and I'm like, whenever she brings it up to someone, I'm like, I know, I know that it wasn't all right. Let's move to rapid fire. So Ary, I'm just gonna be quick. So you have to say that person that comes to your mind. The last couple of rapid fires I've done, people do take a little bit of time, so I won't I won't take off points for that, but let's keep this Um quick and then I've let you enjoy the rest of your Wednesday. Not What is your favorite? Um, B two B brand or B Two c? Okay, my favorite B Two c brand is ulti beauty. Parma Bratt, I believe, is how you pronounce her name. She I think it's ther CMO. She was really a leader in guiding them to digital. They used to be one of my clients a long time ago, and just what, I think maybe it was the wow west of digital marketing and just saying their growth as a brand has been really inspiring and she was really the leader there. So that was that was a long response. Is it okay? It is long, tools long.

Yeah, it's okay, it's don't really okay. I will not make up points for that. The best way to wind down a book. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Your favorite drink? Well, we'll talk alcoholic beverage and old fashioned or a Godfather, which is Scotch Armouretto and was promoted by Francis Ford Coppola during the movie in the Seventies. Oh my gosh, that is uh, I've got I've got a funny story about about Scotch that I won't share. Favorite movie. Oh, I just told my husband that I actually had a favorite movie, possibly inglorious ascards. Yeah, I will go with that one. I love that one. Waters from that. Yeah, Um, when are you most productive? Definitely in the morning. You're not. You're not getting me at my bens right now, Jazz, I'm sorry, that's like arrist productive, multiple most productive at like, you know, eight, nine pm in the morning. That's why I try to schedule my stuff later in the afternoon, because I end up like a Zombie. Good in the park. Favorite season the fall, not too hot, not in cold, you can wear sweaters, you can wear boots. Yeah, are you a coffee drinker, very much. So, okay, what's your if if starbucks was going to have one of their drinks named after you, which drink would it be from starbucks? None, I don't get starbucks. Oh Yeah, I knew love starbucks, a great starbucks. Okay, fine, your favorite coffee shelf. Well, which drink? Which? Which? which coffee drink would be you? But you know what, I am very much a simple girl. I brew my drip with my husband. Where's my drink? Coffee? Every morning I would just go to a coffee shop and get a drip. There's this really cute place in Chicago. Um, oh my gosh, I can't remember the name of it because it was like by my first apartment. They had really fantastic coffee and I would skip my big old cup driven in Little Cram, little sugar. That's all I need. I don't need a fancy drink. No pots, no ESPRESSOS. Um, during the fall, though, you're not doing like PSL or anything. No, wow, no pump never matter. No, Oh my God, that's all I do. That is all I do. I I am not a pumpkin spice. So funny, during during my wedding, Um, what you end up with a team that got rabbit fire, and I won't stop talking now. One of the challenges. So in a in an Indian wedding, there is a little game that the bride's maids play with the groom before he retrieved his bride, right before they led him into the house. He's gotten complete a series of challenges. My challenge was, um, he has to name my favorite star of a star wance during star wants a lot because it's like consistent and anyways it's close to me. So we had to name what. What is Jazz Star? Favorite Star? What's true? And he it was a at the time and now I drink less sweete, but it was a grande, half sweet soy, triple shot camel machiato. And then, in front of all of my friends and family, while he had this like you know, crazy turban on and here the full get up, get a sword and then don't get it, and then he had to do some push ups and do it Indian dance and he's not Indian. So Um, it was fun for him, but I'm gonna move on. Pet Peet, pet peeve, oh gosh, I have so many. So the problem with that question is I am very much a petty person, Um, and I'm also very mercurial. So it really depends on the time of the day, the day, what week it is. This isn't a question for me. Jas. Okay, I don't want to be added to any of the lists, so I'm gonna move on to what's ice cream flavor? Are you? What...

...be fun? Okay, love that. You spirit animal. Oh maybe it can't. Is that, how right? That a basic answer. I don't know the guy yet. Okay, okay, that used to be one of the questions that I would ask in interviews, Um, just to throw someone all yeah, what's your oh my gosh, what's the Harry Potter? Um? Oh well, your protronis yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you would think I will have a better answer. You are really getting me with these. Can you just can you just have me back on and then we can I'll be better prepared the person. I can have you back on, because I really need to talking to you, and maybe I'll try to schedule it for the morning. Yeah, and let's talking about boats first and then we'll spend the next thirty minutes talking about already mere curious. I got, I got two last questions. Uh, what? What's one superpower that you would pick? I would fly love that. And, Um, who are some of WHO's someone who inspires you or a role model that you have or someone that you think that we should invite to the show? Let's see where already head Mary, one of our other old gossh there are a couple. Um, three q really had some incredible people. So I'll give you a couple. One is a former client whose name is Rob Levin. It's fantastic. Um, he is the head of digital at curiosity stream right now. All right, sorry, the head of growth, I believe. Um, he's one of my mentors. He's fantastic, one of the smartest guys I've ever had as a client. And then Leslie, she is a former three cure and she is an s C oh. I'm actually not quite sure where she is right now, but we are. We are in a recently formed book club. She's also a book hurt Um. So yeah, I would I would definitely say those two and I can make sure to enjoy you. I would love that. I would absolutely love that. And finally, where can, if you want to share listeners, find you online? And you said twitter absolutely twitter. I am Social Senia. Ah, yeah, from me on twitter. Awesome and we will share it up for our community. But thank you so much. I absolutely loved having you on the show. I think if I didn't have an actual clock telling me to stop, I would have continued going, but it is the end of your productivity. You know you're I would like you to go back out to your Hammock pick up your book if you can. Absolutely loved having you on the show. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, awesome. Thanks so much. byness. By, thanks for listening to growth marketing camp. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you would give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to strengthen their skills with tips and inspiration. You want to learn more about the company behind the show, head to open sense dot com. That's O P E N S E N S E dot Com. We'll catch you on the next episode. HM.

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