Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 10 · 1 year ago

How SEO Flipped This Team’s Funnel and Led To 500% Growth

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When Jeremy Collins stepped into the EVP of Marketing role at Azuga, 80% of the demand was generated by third parties like vendors and partners. In the ensuing 14 months, Jeremy built a foundation of SEO excellence with goals of just 5% improvement every week. By focusing on the consistent incremental wins, he’s seen 500% growth. The company now owns its own demand gen destiny and is seriously benefiting from the results.

Welcome to growth marketing camp, where we sit down with our favorite marketers to D mystify growth and give you the insights to help turn your next campaign into a major success. Let's get into it. Okay, welcome to another episode of Growth Marketing Camp. I am joined here by Jeremy Collins, the EXECUTI Vice President of marketing from Azooga. Jeremy, thanks for coming on the show man. Excited to have you. Yeah, thanks for having me. Good to talk to you. So I want to invite you to the show because we've actually had a chance to work together before and and I remember seeing how critically you looked at campaign structure broadly, like you had a really good universal mind for strategy and where campaigns played, but even you could get into the nitty gritty, specifically like tactics and messaging, and it's interesting you're so you're definitely a growth marketer right, if this shows about growth marketing, you definitely qualify. But you've also got a sales background, so I wanted to ask you do you think the sales experience has influenced your marketing leadership and even tactics and execution? Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, for me, I definitely view all marketing campaign strategies across like an end too end funnel, that there's not a real separation. That I think that's actually key and one of the slippery slopes a marketer can get into. Or it's like, Oh, I do this, I create content, you know, and sells cells the leads I produced and there's a clear hand off and process to that which on a paper makes sense, but when you think about, especially like a Bob software buyers journey, it's not as clear cut. So you have to look at the into in funnel and realize that buyers can jump around the funnel and bottom of funnel, buyers can become middle of funnel and buyers that you never even had before leap right down to the bottom. And so when I look at any marketing strategy I always want to tie it to not only the cells results but all the way downstream to second year renewal, third year renewal and the expansion opportunities that we have. And that might just be a little bit of I can't get my cells blood out of me. At the end of the day I'll always be in cells at heart and quite honestly, marketing is an extension of cells and cells is an extension of marketing and you need both to succeed. So yeah, going after it front of the same view point of results is definitely helpful. That's a good frame of reference, always thinking of the entire funnel and even into those expansions and renewals. That's good. I can see how your experience would play into that and make you a better marketer. You've been in Martek in the past year at act on. You've worked alongside our guests Kevin Babowski from episode number for a couple of times, including an act on. So I'm sure you've got a million campaigns you could talk to us about that have been successful. But you're at a Zooga now and I think we're going to be talking is your efforts there and...

...what has been really successful for you. So talk to us a little bit about the shape of this thing, because it's not a traditional campaign. It's not start and finish, it's not A and B. What was it that you want to cover? Yeah, I think I started at a Zooga the year and two months ago or so and I had the blessing of starting the right before a pandemic. It's fun hopefully people get to never experience that in their life, but I think for me and our industry that we play in our customers, it was actually a blessing in disguise and it worked out great and it really highlighted something that I already think about on everything that I do. Again, we kind of talked about the result side, but how do we tie marketing budget to url and connect all those dots that we can make good decisions and we can go down the various campaigns? Any marketing teams to be running forty, fifty campaigns at once? Sure, but when I look at a high level of something that, quite honestly, any company can do at any point, regardless of being in a pandemic or being in the greatest market ever, area of recession, doesn't matter. Seo is only going to create a stable environment, not only for the short term but for the long term, and support all of those layers of the funnel and making sure you have the eyeballs kind of in those moments that matter. So I think focusing in a little bit on that, we can take it in a bunch of different directions, but I think it might be interesting for your audience to kind of hear about that side of it. Yeah, it's great that you're bringing up Seo because it is, like you're saying, the foundation. Actually, on episode two of the show we had Jamie who's the CMO at Lion Bridge, and he was talking about how most people are. It's about half of the people currently in business and leadership positions. It's becoming true that we grew up searching for things online. That's where we go for information. We don't go to the encyclopedia that our parents bought from a doorted our salesman like. We're literally going to the Internet to gain knowledge, and so mastering SEO is such a critical foundation for our marketing philosophy and strategy that, like this is where people go to get information for the rest of their lives, likely unless something disrupt search right, which is fascinating to think about. So talk to us about your audience. What do you guys sell into? Whom I have a good sense of. It's in fleet management, but talk to us a little bit about the audience there and what you guys are offering them, because then we can shape the discussion around Seo for that. Yeah, and actually, before I talk about the audience, one thing that is very interesting on Seo and it's also kind of an important nuance. It's like there's the Seo Strategy and the literal Seo, but there's so many branches of that that and not think about, like messaging. So how do you develop your messaging?...

There's the cells alignment piece. You know there's a marketing approach to it, but I would argue that a good chunk of that actually comes down to Seo and that's kind of your validation point in your messaging and aligning your messaging to what people are looking for. It's so obvious. It's like, if I'm looking for and this gets into our audience, if I'm looking for fleet management software, what type of terms do I use to say fleet management software and very quickly develop your kind of content pillars your messaging just by grouping in all the keywords and it starts to shine a light on what your audience and what your market is telling you what you are as we can get overly creative with calling ourselves whatever we want to call ourselves. End of the day, if that doesn't make sense to the buyer and that's not their language, then your messaging could look great in a slide deck, but and on your website, but nobody will ever find it. So it all. It's another good example of where, like none of these campaigns work in a silo. They start to branch off and feed one another. We have fleet management software as our core product. We also have were the last couple years really developed our INSURETECH, which basically continues to have the foundation of fleet management, but offering more solutions to insurance carriers. So interesting. You know, we do over seven billion data points against all these vehicles and drivers every single year and all that data is really powerful for how insurance carriers make decisions on how are they going to write a policy for a fleet company? How are they going to process those claims? What's the risk assessment? And so are in users kind of playing a few different segments, between the literal fleet management software to the fleet organizations, to the the insurance providers that are writing policies. And by default, we both are going after the same audience and we've also entered into a field service management, which is a extension of our fleet product. Okay, so you've got several, I mean a few, core audiences here that you're going after, and how do you think about that from an SEO perspective. Is it? This is primary, Secondary, tertiary? Do you run them all the same time? I'm really curious to hear how you've built that out. Yeah, so, like I would frame them up as entry points into the market. So for us, I mean if someone wants to come through an entry point safe for field service management, then we want to tailor their journey for field service management and bring them through to fleet, bring them through to helping them with their insurance policies, bring them through to integrating their dash camps on the vehicles. And so we have about seven different entry points that we look at and so we want to gain market share across all of them, and the all fleet management maybe the logical turns to go after, and...

...it's what the company was built on. We now have the luxury of going after all these other entry points and bringing their journey through to the other ones, so being highly relevant to what they're looking for. It's less about what we need, it's more about what the user at that moment of time is looking for and can we get their eyeballs right then and bring them down the journey? Sure. So you've been there for just over a year. What was it like initially going in? How did you assess things from an SEO perspective? Because this it gets a little tactical here, like was it hey, we're at a certain level of acceptability, or to descrab everything and start over, like you, as a leader coming in and deciding, hey, we want to emphasize Seo as a critical component over marketing strategy. How did you do that? Yes, so, specific to a Zooga, we relied to some degree on third party lead generation, which I don't think is unique and because, quite honestly, you think about, going back to my initial comment on tying your budget to results in a lot of good ways. That makes the calculations very easy, right. I know if I buy a leak for a hundred dollars, I have my sales conversion rates on the other side and while I I have our lie and I can just keep doing it. And so I'm not against that process. I just think that's one piece of the Pie with man Jim Strategy. So for us we had to do a lot. We had to define what the SEO strategy was going to be, looking through what was already working like. Luckily we had a lot of data already within the customer base to help define who our customers were, what they were looking for, but we didn't actually have the tracking set up when I got here. So first of all it's like, can we set up the systems, were success and can we validate that data with our customer base, with our successes on and wins, making sure we're aligned with the cells team so we don't just create another lead, but it's a lead that we know will never convert, and it's that whole sales and marketing friction where so sell says marketing can't give me a good lead and marketing says, why, I gave you a thousand of them, so you should figure it out. Like from the get go we didn't want to get into that environment. It's like we're coming at this together. Will Develop the strategies, will develop content, but there's a lot of validation and confirmation points that we aligned with cells on. So, after setting up the systems, making sure that we could essentially redesign the website for the user, make sure it's set up for conversion with the right conversion points at the right time. And you know, then it's about creating our content pillars, which at a high level or kind of our entry points in the market, but within those content pillars branches off all kinds of subtopics and really seo. After you work through all of that, then...

...you, to me, get into SEO, which is really content that you get past all the technical hurdles, all the reporting hurdles, all the alignment hurdles, and now you're into building content. And because you set up the foundation in the framework, now you know what's working, what's not working, what you should double down on, making sure that all of your keywords are defined and tracked on rankings within the pages, and then also aligning that to your sem strategy so that seem and seo start to work together. In a lot of ways, sem feeds the strategy for Seo and vice versa. Sure, because you're getting those additional data points, seeing what's working, what's converting. Yeah, exactly, okay, interesting. And what did that journey look like for you guys in terms of I don't know, what are the KPIS that you're really focused on when you first set this up? Are you looking at just traffic? Obviously you're looking all the way down the funnel of the conversions, but what are maybe those key stopping points along the way. Yeah, I think if we think about this again as a funnel all the way through, and more so, not necessarily performance funnel, but it's more of a timing funnel because there's certain indicators that you need, like revenue, that you're not going to get on day one, but you could get the traffic leading indicator day one. But it has to play out all the way through. To answer the question, do we double down? As it working? Is it not working? Yeah, so it's all the things you would think of there, which is easier said than done. Let's think about you know, we have at any given point two thousand to three thousand keywords that we're going after that we're tracking closely. How do you track the keyword ranking of keyword number one thousand, four hundred and twenty two? And yesterday it reduced fifty rankings and now it was on page one, now it's on page seven. Yeah, and once you get to page three you might as well be on page one million. So basically the way we set that up is basically an early warning system. So we defined what our acceptable thresholds would be within each keyword and then, stead of triggers to know, okay, this has now dipped five percent or its increase five percent, and then that really gave us a prioritization ability to be able to take the right actions at the right time and get those indicators in real time, versus having that surprise three months later and it's like hey, did anybody notice that we lost all of our traffic on this keyword, which then resulted in all the traffic to this page, which then resulted in x amount of less leads for cells. Now that we're talking about kind of how it goes down to sales, is there any conversation with them as you're building it? Are you sharing that content like an addition to the what we called the SEO juice, right, in addition to the juice that you can get from the squeeze? Is there some other side of it that they're benefiting from? Like obviously you're creating content that's valuable to...

...the buyers and you're thinking top of Fune, but also midfun, also bottom Fune, also beyond. Where is that conversation take place? So, yeah, this is a another good reminder on why Seo, everything you do for s seo is not only paying off for Seo you know, that might be why you're doing it. That might give you your return, but there's so many ancillary benefits from it. So give you an example. On the sales side, if you're creating really good content for your user and that content is set up for conversion, there it's interesting, it's informational, it's highlighting the product in the right way and balancing that with the content itself. Then you're also creating cells collateral, whether you're really it or not, and they now have more and more content to produce for their prospects. And again, all the way down stream, I would say like it's interesting, no prospects. You used to submit a form on our site after they've talked to cells. Now I mean we have twenty prospects a day submitting more forms that are technically meant for new leads, but it's just interesting, good content, or they're engaging a chat, and so we're helping that deal velocity. So our initial priority might be let's capture the keywords that we know will create to man, but down stree we're also creating a wealth of content for cells to help them in their deals and create more deal velocity. Yeah, you're effectively greasing the skids with content totally makes sense. It's a huge benefit. Is there a mechanism for sharing that, or is it just kind of the expectation the sales goes and gathers that content, like pays attention to it? Or do have like maybe even is it like as tactical as a slack channel that you drop new articles in? What do you goes to? Yes, so, within ourselves enablement strategy, we really feed the content there. And so again it comes back to the technologies and setting up a system of success. As we create new content, we publish that basically a cross our knowledge based and then set up a system in cells for so that there's a flag there. And let's say you're talking to a h BAC company. You don't really need content on pest control. So we want to surface that content through HBAC related content. So we want to make it easy to find and activate the content. So we don't want to waste to cells reps time searching for something and that's it. If they do. I mean what we actually find it is, you know, like you mentioned, if a buyer, like any human being, if they have a question in their mind, it's at the point now where. There they want to self serve themselves, so they're not even necessarily reacting to the cells rep and that's the interesting part here is if you can give them an asset, the buyer, and asset to go in and actually answer these questions on their own, they're actually more likely to buy from the cells grap versus always having to do that back and forth emails and can we...

...set up that call? Obviously we want to set up the call, but we also want to make sure that in between those calls there's a website that's going to support the buyer in their journey. Yeah, I mean it says a lot about the company that you're buying from when they have that content that you can serve yourself, but also when they've clearly demonstrated their experts and can answer your questions, because there used to be this magic to the salesperson that like we held all the answers and we held the keys of the Kingdom and you had to ask us because we're the only ones who had the data or the information or the knowledge. And there's often more of a transactional nature to sales these days, especially with inside selling. You're not in person you're not in their shop, closing the door, shaking their hand, like there's just a difference to it that you want to feel comfortable that when that sales rep exits the conversation, when he or she is no longer a part of it, that you have a whole company behind you that's really going to support you from a product or service standpoint. So makes sense that we want to serve ourselves and that the SEO valuable content that you're creating to get top of funnel is going to help us bottom a funnel. That totally makes sense. You know, go on where we can spot these trends and deal cycles on SEO keywords. So as we grew the business and as we get more demos into the pipeline and we start to see that pipeline really grow last year and continue that kind of excellential growth, we started to see a major uptick that correlated with that growth on the key word as Zooga reviews. And so what people were doing is they were hearing the demo from the cells up, hearing this is great, like I'm amost as to this, like I need this, but I better do my dudality, yeah, which is no longer let me go talk to Dan down the street and see his experience. It's I'm just going to ask Google what the experience is. And so they type into zoogo reviews and so that's just like one small example where you start to see Seo and in your strategy around Seo impacting the cells team downstream and through that deal velocity. Yeah, that makes perfect sense and we've been teasing at all the excitement and positive reaction you've had in your team has had to seo and focusing and building around that. Can you share some of the winds, some of the metrics maybe, or at least some of the stories that have come out of that? Yeah, you know, I'll go back, like from a percentage standpoint, when I got here we were producing about eighty percent in direct leads and the other twenty percent were coming direct through the kind of normal channels you would think of. Website Seem B Mel. They're filling out of form within the a Zuoka side. It's not coming from a third party affiliate partner and we've now gotten to a point where that's flipped and so the volume of those Third Party leads actually has gone up a little bit because we've actually been able to target and renegotiate with those vendors and very aligned with our vendors so that we only produce use good leads, and that's actually resulted in more leads...

...that the reps can work. So when I say lead, I should clarify. I mean a qualified lead, cool workable lead that a cellsrep can work. I don't just mean in the CRM system there's a lead record, that the contact record. Yeah, and so everything's reverse there. which what does that mean? It means we're in control of our own destiny. Number one is we're producing more volume through the funnel. What it's also allowed us to do from the cells perspective is really aligne and specialize in all these different areas. So when I got here, the cells team was structured in that. Hey, everyone, go after everything and get what you can get and if you get some marketing support, great, and we think they need that. There was something coming through, but there wasn't enough consistency to be reliable. Yeah, now that we have real predictability, real scalability and we can guarantee results every single month, every single day, every single week, we now can carve out specialized teams, whether that's direct inbound, indirect inbound, reactivation of in the or the outbound specializations by industry. So we've really been able to find tune all of those layers and focus in on, you know, being successful. That's really exciting for those of us who are maybe newer to Seo and are unfamiliar with the timelines required. You've been there, you're in two months. These things take time. What is the timeline look like for, let's say a radical shift? Let's pretend that we just have to scrap everything and start from scratch, or we're a brand new company starting from scratch. What is a typical timeline that you expect? Yeah, so I think it's a slippery slope on accepting defeat on Seo and using almost what could be an excuse like a trust me, it's a long game. Right like that. It takes a while, that is true. No one can argue that. That's also the benefit is it's a long game and I'll pay off more and more. But I would urge everyone, I urge myself, I urge my team. We're looking to make five percent improvements at the beginning, five percent improvements every single week on a campaign like Seo. So you really have to prioritize where the search volume is, where you're going to get the most results. What's the competitive nature of that keyword? But what's the market look like and where can you capture it? So we're not trying to triple results next week. We're trying to get five percent better and, quite honestly, over time we're trying to get one percent better. So once we hit a kind of point of skill, we're only trying to make marginal improvements. But we're making those marginal improvements every day, every hour, every week. It's not a quarterly review. So I would just focus in on not the big mountain of where can I go and Seo, but what wins can I get today that's going to give me five percent more next week and find the next...

...five percent after that. And so for us what's happened is we seen a five hundred percent increase in results on Seo in a very short amount of time. Doesn't feel short. Maybe the played into that feels like a long time. You know, fourteen months with five hundred percent increases on Seo, you know that starts to really pay off. But it didn't happen overnight and we didn't try and make it happen overnight. We just tried to improve five percent every week. That's a really good way to look at it. And I'm curious how have you structured your team? Kind of broadly, but then specifically scope down to Seo, like who handles water? How many people do you have doing this? Because it's it's one thing to like mentally say, Oh, we're committing SEO and we're going to make some things happen and then go assign your people out to a bunch of other resources and projects and campaign. So how have you structured the team there? Yeah, I mean I definitely practice what I preached. They're like what I was starting around the cell side. How like we've really gotten laser focused and segmented and specialized within the cells team. That was like day one for the marketing team as well, because marketing in general, it is tough to sign out roles and responsibilities with conflicting interests and you just have to get stuff done and so it almost becomes an afterthought on who's doing what and when. It's a little bit of everyone raising their hand. So aligning the teams within that and making sure everyone understands those goals rolls responsibilities allow us to do a lot more production. And so, from an SEO perspective specifically, we have a web developer who has a couple people working for him that sort of more on the technical side and refreshing the website, building out the website. And then we only have one content writer and you know, we crank out a lot. And what I will say where we do sometimes get into like a team rally, and sometimes, I also think this is kind of fun, is let's say we want to really go after a keyword and our one content writer can't just produce enough content. Well, it's like, well, there's ten of us on our team, we can all produce one blog post this week. Let's do it and let's get competitive and who's going to get the best blog post out there? And that's a small thing. But again, we're not looking to solve all of our performance goals with a blog post, but if all ten of those combined get one percent better than you know we're on the path. So yeah, we do have to call on audible every once in a while, sure, and rally together, but I will say having those very set objectives and time them to results in the rules and responsibilities of WHO's doing what is, quite honestly, the only thing anything will ever scale. Otherwise, everyone has a bunch of ideas, none of them come through and you wonder why you didn't hit the number three months later in the board rating. Yeah, okay, I feel like you're the steady hand that's needed at the helm of some of...

...these things. That's really interesting. What are some of the other maybe breakoff channels that you're focused on or howl's? Are you splitting up the team? Sounds like you have one person really primarily focus on website, you know, revamping one content specialist. Who Else is there? What else is the the team comprise of? So, in terms of those segments to we also have SNB and an enterprise. So the demand and strategies are separated. Sure there's definitely some correlations there and overspill either direction, but you know, like from an ABM perspective, we're not running a two RABM campaign on sand. We do targeted personalized campagne. We don't run an ABM campaign like we would with enterprise. So that's separated out. We have underneath my organization as so I've read offs and cells enablement, which is a kind of recent evolution of the teams and structuring based on all this kind of framework and scalability of what we're doing. So it's all kind of under one umbrella now, and so within redops. So that's the things like reporting and analytics, setting up all of the systems, making sure that they stay set up and rates and no one knows about it. And database is key for us. So even though we're talking a lot about how does marketing produced, to man Jin, forty two fifty percent of our results still come from outdown, and so we really took an effort and big approach to setting up the outbound teams for success. So that's Ur have all their sequences, running their email campaigns for them on the front and the back end, making sure they have the right talk tracks. But almost equally important is that now you're getting the message out and everything, but the leads were quality. It had verified validated emails, verified validated phone numbers. Everything they need to be successful is there. It's accurate and it's ready to go, so we don't have to waste a bunch of time relying on the cells rev to, you know, do admin work. They can just focus on selling. Yeah, that's nice. I mean it's great that you get to those two kind of other components rolled up underneath your org and it makes a lot of sense, especially giving your history your experience with it. Technically, then, sales and able one does not encompass the BDRSTR outbound function. Does that roll up under your orders, that part of sales? Yeah, I mean I treated under revops. So we're going into a different direction. But like my theory on sales marketing operations, those are three distinct orgs and they all work together at every organization, whether it's structured together or not. And so technically for us, revvops and marketing reports up through me, but I definitely treat them as two separate organizations because in a like you don't want your ops team to be by is one way or another. So it's more technicality to me. They need to keep everyone honest, right like,...

...if you're in the marketing side, it's just human nature. You're going to defend whatever marketing strategy you have and if you're on the cell side or the same thing, and I've warned both hats and felt the same way both ways. So I really push us to make sure that we keep an unbiased source for our operations team, because that causes them to be more likely to spot those negative and positive trends and really prioritize correctly and think about the business holistically versus I'm in cells ops or I'm in marketing ops and I help marketing and I helped cells. Yeah, red BOPs helps both. Where we're in. Quite honestly, this is a culture conversation, but we don't have this problem, like we are very aligned on seals and marketing, but it's so easy to get disconnected. Im sure they of performance or attribution that ops is kind of that third party, unbiased, almost decisionmaker, and some of this stuff they're like a referee in the ring, I guess, even though we shouldn't be on opposite sides and we shouldn't be fighting, they seem kind of like the people who make the call. Yeah, yeah, and then, in turn my team to I also have product marketing, which feeds again into a lot of this between messaging, competitive insides, enablement, content, all that. That's awesome, okay. And then let's say, if you were going to do this all over again, and Audazuga in particularly, like, what have you learned from the Seo strategy that maybe would accelerate it or would make it easier more fun. Heck, I don't know. It seems like it's going really well for you guys with five hundred percent is the big figure you're putting up here. But is there anything you learned that you would maybe do differently next time? Yeah, I think I've learned this same lesson like five times and company the best lessons go that way. It's interesting that it's a learning because I should know this. But you get so laser focused on the one you want to win and you can win. It's almost just like a personal than Debta gets that keyword, like I have to win this and you're not going to defeat me, that you lose sight of the bigger picture and the bigger opportunities you may have. And so yeah, I think that's just something that sometimes you have to remind ourselves and just say there, it's not all going to work. You know, our time is better spin in this area. And so again it comes back to the systems of success, really committing to what your thresholds are, what you're willing to do, the time and scope that's going to take and the roles and responsibilities who's going to do the work and with the timelines and the result side. And when something doesn't work, it's okay to abandon it, shift focus and pivot to something that will. And is it a failure? Yeah, but I mean, of course, like you're doing like fiftyzero things at once, like not all down to fillons. Yeah, I think that's something, especially doing it a from the new side. You want all wins, right. No one wants to come to the table with hey, we launched this whole strategy and nine...

...and out of the tin failed. So yeah, you know, you've dropped a lot of great ideas on us and and I'm sure the audience is going to love this, but thinking about growth marketers in particular and things that they maybe are doing now that they should stop doing, and I feel like you've hinted at some of these maybe throughout the conversation, or things that they're not doing yet that they should start doing. You have one or both of those in mind? The first thing that comes to mind. Maybe it's because we talked a lot on the cells and marketing alignment piece, but never walk into a meeting with cells and tell them how many leads you produced. When cells hasn't hit their number and give yourself a pat on the back on how great you did and never tie it to the revenue. That is a guaranteed recipe for upsetting cells and causing misalignment that's not even necessarily MIS aligned, it's just against personal nature. We're all human beings here working together, and so always keep that in mind, like whatever we do on the marketing side, at the end of the day, especially we're talking about demand and we're having a very demand heavy conversation. I can probably have another podcast on brand and anotherst on expansion, but we're talking about demand from a marketing perspective. If you're not talking about revenue, you've completely missed the boat and you're pissing off cells, whether you realize it or not, like they're all talking about you and how you don't get it and you don't understand. So that would be my piece of advice. And again, like being on both ends of the spectrum, a scene in both ways, and it's okay to give bad news to cells. It's like, Hey, we didn't hit the number, we got the leads, we got the demos, they haven't converted yet, so we're really trying to you know fine tune deal velocity right now and help you there so we can ultimately all hit our revenue number. Like put it into context. Yeah, I mean even that. You say we're trying to help you with deal velocity. That seems like a thing that a marketer could say. Well, that's sales is problem, right, deal velocity. It's like, oh, that's a sales oh sorry, it hit your section of the funnel. That's no longer and that's just the whole mentality you bring to the table. So, as growth marketers, let's stop walking into meetings or logging into zoom calls and touting the number of leads we got. I sales and hit their figure. I think that's a great component to just the nature. You say, like growth marketer. What are we growing? Are we trying to grow leads? Trying to grow as a revenue? Right, yeah, we have growth marketer and not talk about revenue. Revenue is the ultimate metric. Now, don't take me too literally. There's so many leading indicator metrics and early warning systems and Kpis that you have to track all the way through to get you to that ultimate number. Yeah, honestly, that's just the output it's all of the inputs that get you there. You should have to understand how those inputs feed the ultimate output of revenue. Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for joining as in. My final question here is who are some marketers who you follow, who've maybe even worked within the past,...

...who you think we should be following, looking at even having a conversation with on the show? Yeah, it's a good question. I don't know that if I follow a specific marketer per se, sure, but I'm always interested, like whether it's Linkedin or podcast or anything topically. You know, we're sorry to all the influence marketers out there. Yeah, I have no loyalty to you. I just care about the content. I just care about what's being produced. Maybe that weighs right back to the beginning for us, like it's about the content. It's not always about the the brand that will come, and so I care about that, the content being producing. There's so much of it nowadays that every day I can consume a ten minute piece of content that might make me think just a little bit differently. And so no individual to call out, unfortunately, but the whole there's so much good information out there and marketers or happy to share it. So I follow everybody. That's awesome. I love that. You're no respecter of individual persons. You just love the content. I guess the last question I should start asking folks here is clubhouse or no clubhouse. Man, are you on the clubhouse? So I'm on clubhouse and I've had a debate with this on my son who's thirteen, and he tells me that this is like a business saying that nobody's ever going to use and doesn't make any sense. So the thirteen year old says it's no good. For me, I actually think it's gone the extreme to too much content and now we too much that's not focused in. So I'm on the fence. I think it's very interesting. I think the idea is they're actually less about the actual platform more about their go to market strategy. I love the go to market strategy that they do. It's genius. I mean the way that they've gotten the kind of referral, kind of viral invite only kind of thing. Yeah, it makes you like I had to get logged in right. Yeah, talking about it it's like, okay, what am I missing here? I got to go check thing out. I think I gave it a good shot. We'll see where it evolves to. What it is today is not what it will be five years from now. Yeah, but love to go to market strategy. Probably need to fine tune the content a little bit more. Love it, love it. Love your take on that. Jeremy, thanks so much for join us, man. We appreciate your time. Yeah, I thank you. Thanks for listening to growth marketing camp. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you would give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to get a little more inspiration for their next campaign. If you want to learn more about the company behind the show, had to open sensecom. That's open sky and skycom will catch you on the next episode.

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