Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 72 · 3 weeks ago

How to Build Brand Loyalty Through ABM, Customer Marketing and Evangelism with Nick Bennett from Alyce

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this week's episode of Growth Marketing Camp, we chat with Nick Bennett, the Director of Evangelism & Customer Marketing at Alyce, about all things ABM, Customer Marketing, and Evangelism.

Nick shares the story of what it takes to build a strong personal brand and a community of die-hards (& how Alyce leverages it), how to collaborate with B2B influencers to create content, and provides practical tips on how to get started. He’ll touch on the importance of customer marketing, and how his experience enabled him to find success. You’ll also get kickass tactical ideas to replace those tired case studies for something more exciting.

The cherry on top: Nick tells the story of why he started his podcast, Rep Your Brand, and how it helped him level up from being a marketer to building a loyal community. Dig in!

Welcome to Growth Marketing Camp podcast powered by Open Sense, where we sit down with leaders and founders from diverse backgrounds and marketing, tech and beyond to explore what it takes to build a leading brand that's shaving the world of B two B. Let's get into it. Hey everyone, this is Jazz Bidding, co host of Growth Marketing Camp, and I'm very excited to welcome this week's guest, Nick Bennett, director of evangelism and customer marketing at Alice and the host of Rep Your Brand podcast. Nick, it's great to have you on the show. Welcome. Thank you so much for having me excited to be here. Yeah, I was actually um, I was sharing a little bit when you joined the call. I absolutely love your hast So can you just tell everyone where you got your hat from because I know people are going to be curious when they see her, when they see your fit. Yeah. So I launched a merch line last week with a company called Maidens of Merch And so if you're interested in anything, I have my podcast Rep Your Brand. I have haters, hate, creators, create on there, all different things. So just head over to my LinkedIn profile and click the resource tab at the top you can find it. Yeah, well we'll definitely link the town because I was telling you, like it's hard to find merch that you'll actually wear. But surprisingly, I don't know if you maybe you weren't. Were you at Inbound? So I was. I didn't go to the conference, but I went to the Chili Piper event. Got it? Got it? What was the Chili Piper event? They just did it at like um, like a brewery, and it was like them and a bunch of other companies. It was like the like a Sass Award type thing. But it was fun because it was literally everyone at Inbound that like you see on LinkedIn for so long, and it was like great to finally meet people again. Yeah, oh my gosh. So I was at Inbound with the team, but um I was talking to um you later, but she shared with me a bunch of people that were green to be there, people that we've interacted with that have been on our podcast, other companies and marketers that we want on our podcast. And it was just so trippy to actually walk through the conference and recognized people. I was kind of felt like a crid because I know these people because I see them on my feed I'm interacting with them and then you're finally seeing them in person, and it's just a weird feeling, but it feels like it feels awesome when you actually get a chance to talk to them and it's like, hey, you're just as cool as you know. I thought you were on LinkedIn exactly and those people. It's funny because I also had this conversation with someone that is a good friend of mine and they were like, there was people that I met in person at Inbound that I followed on LinkedIn for years, and they are not the same person, Like they basically fake who they are on LinkedIn and they act completely different in real life. And I was like, What's what's the point of doing that? So that okay, So hopefully people never think that would be me, would they like, I'm actually even like not at Inbound, But there have been experiences where I think all of us have had that where you talk to someone it's like they seem kind of flat and dry, but when you meet them in a person, there's so much better. And then obviously the opposite, right, you'll meet some people and they're much worse than other They prevent themselves. But I'm glad that you did go and you had fun. Talk to me a little bit about what you do currently at Alice and what Alice is exactly. Yeah, Alice is a is a B two B gifting platform, So think direct mail gifting. How do you break into accounts, accelery deal, surprise and delight customers? Does the whole gamut there? And I was actually a previous customer of Alice's years ago, and so I stayed in touch and I ended up joining a little over a year and a half ago now. And so originally I was here to build a b M from scratch. Um, that's kind of my background field marketing a b M, and so I did that and then moved into more of a field marketing role in community, which is also near and dear in my heart. And then about three months ago, maybe four months ago now, I was asked to take on customer marketing like retention and like the evangelism piece. And so right now what I do is focus on retention through a variety of tactics and strategies, but also the evangelism piece, so getting Alice more brand awareness by doing podcasts, going to events. I've been creating content for two and a half years now, so being able to just get the name out there, which it was already had a very strong name in the out there, like people knew the brand. It's more so amplifying that got it. Got it. So you touched on a couple of things that I do wanna um, I do want to talk about first year experience with a b M. I'm a little curious about that that will transition into customer marketing based off of your experience with a M, especially for a lot of BAWT companies. Is it still a hot thing because you know, you you end up seeing like trends of a b M. I know, you know about two or three years ago that was the biggest thing. Now I'm starting to see chatter on LinkedIn that hey, it doesn't work, there's other things that you should invest in. Is it just as strong now as it was before? And are there things that you think B two B marketers have just been sleeping on that they should actually...

...you know, incorporate into their A b M campaigns to make them more successful. Oh? Man, I love this topic because you know, I don't want to say I got roasted a couple of weeks ago, but like I posted that a b M is just a buzzword at its court's targeted marketing to a subset of accounts, and people who were like arguing with me that it's a methodology and like that it's a company wide initiative, and I said, I get that, trust me, I do. But a b M was just years ago. It's like it shouldn't just be marketing. Account based marketing just makes it seem like, okay, so it's just marketing doing this thing. But where does sales come in, Where does revolts come in? Where does cs come in? How do you impact across the entire biased journey so that it's more relevant and thoughtful? Um? And so it was funny because I was just like, you know, why are you why are you coming at me with this? And I I think a b M is still a thing. And I joined a lot of prospect calls and customer calls and they'll say, hey, I want to use gifting and direct mail for a b M to break into my top account. I say, great, what's your a b M strategy? And they'll all give me different answers like, oh, my CEO says we should be doing this, or our sales team gave us three accounts to go after, or we just want to invite key accounts to events. But that's it. So like it's not a like holistic strategy of everything encompassing it. You're using it as more of a similar bullet and you have to think of it as an amplification to the other channels that you're running. And so you know, I don't want to say that it's it's a buzz to me, it's it's a buzz word. It's something where field marketers have been doing a b M for years. Like I'm a traditional field marketer as well, and so when you think about a film, marketers are usually broken up into territories, regions, or segments, and so you're working with a very specific sales team and you're going off to target accounts in that industry or vertical whatever. It's like, it's that's what a b M was for the twin last twenty thirty years. The one thing that I do think people are sleeping on now and I've been creating more and more to talks recently because I've been trying to do more video, and I think it's influencer marketing and B two b. I think that as we end two and go into you're gonna start to see more and more companies start to invest into influencer marketing and not just going with the big you know, hundred thousand plus people that are on their their list, but like the macro and kind of micro influencers as well that probably are in that like ten to fifty k range, especially on LinkedIn, like you could do a lot of cool things. And I've fortunately been on both sides of it. I have been on like in programs with other companies, and I've also run my own campaigns with other people, and so I feel like it's been really interesting to test with an experiment and the results have been phenomenal, at least for the programs that we've run. Yeah, yep, um for the programs Ellis has invested in. Right, Yeah, how are you guys finding because I know it's much when you think influencer marketing obviously traditionally we're thinking like Instagram, right, and there are tons of platforms that have like Instagram influencers we can sign them. How is Alice finding the right influencers to leverage for your guys campaigns? Yes? So I think it's fortunate where I have a pretty big network and so I can tap into a lot of those people that I've built relationships with. I'll give you a good example. So Devin Reid, who is ex gone now at Clary, good friend of mine, and so we partnered with him on his newsletter and so not only on his newsletter, but I said, Devin, like, what can we do beyond this to create content together? We both have been creating content for years, and so we're putting together actually a bunch of like other pieces on top of that, both video and written, and so his audience is the exact people that we go after. So it just made a lot of sense. And we partnered with other people that have similar audiences, UM that go after you to know, marketers as well as salespeople, and they've they've been well, Like the amount that you'll spend on some of these like campaigns are a lot cheaper than running like paid ad campaigns, especially on LinkedIn. Now, So for a company I'm asking selfishly, by the way, for a company that may not have UM built kind of the UM. So Alice is leveraging your community right now. I mean a lot of it is maybe not totally but they're definitely able to leverage the community you have built, and you've built quite a community. We'll talk a little bit more about that later. But for a smaller for another company who maybe has it invested in community building, how can they find those you know, influencers beyond right if they don't have a personal connection with them. Is there a singular plants or it's just kind of like listening to people on LinkedIn and just reaching out to them. Yes, So I think social media is a big piece of it. And so it's funny enough. I've talked to, like I would say a handful of people in the last couple of weeks who have told me that they're building a platform for B two BE like different people, Like this seems to be top of mind for a lot of people, and so...

...they're building a platform for this, specifically for B two B to find the right people for the right industry, the right size, Like it just kind of like connects to you. And I feel like B two C already has this in a lot of cases and they've like they've nailed they've been doing it forever, and like B two B is now just starting to get into that. And I think that again. As we move into I think you're gonna start to see platforms pop up easier ways to get connected with the people that you want to. But to be honest with you, like you would be surprised at how many people, like, say you had like a list of five people that you wanted to reach out to, you shot them a d M on LinkedIn. I guarantee you probably most of them, if not all of them would respond. Like it's I feel like it's a lot different than b to see like people are more willing to have those conversations and like be open to doing things like that depending on what your ask is. Yeah, awesome, Well and you probably have a pull set it. So maybe after this conversation, you give me the list of people that you think are worth reading out too. Because here's the thing that we've done, um that opens inves in the past, you know, sponsored newsletters. Sometimes you'll build a full kid paid around and I'm not gonna drop some of the newsletters we've sponsored in the past, but it just falls flat, nothing comes out of it. So then you wonder, if you know, but these are news letters that have been around for a very long time that almost like they're kind of it's like time for the it's time for them to just you know, set up into the distance and you don't have to worry about them anymore. But I do understand how engaged people are with um some of the other like LinkedIn influencers that I've seen, because I am incredibly engaged with the ones that I follow, So I do see value in that in terms of, like you mentioned Devin Read, what kind of content are you kind of giving him to be able to like, you know, tie it back to Alice? Is it very promotional? Because I also I'm trying to try to tie it back to what I've seen on Instagram and other influencers, and it's like you kind of have to um mold the content to fit that person's style. But any tips for for people getting started, yes, So, so we try not to make it like promotional like sales e at all. Like I'll give you a good example because we just switched our C t A this past week and so we just released a brand new playbook called Outbound Love. So, like, our goal is to make direct mail and gifting part of your outbound marketing strategy. So we created this entire playbook called outbound Love because we want to make outbound love because people hate it right now, Like no one likes to be called called email, you know, spammed all that stuff. So how do you make it as part of an amplification to those other things that you're doing. And so we dropped that link with some some really creative copy at the beginning of it, and I utm the link and like it blew up um because let's go. The news letter goes out every Saturday morning, and so like I checked it yesterday and it was just it was phenomenal how many people clicked into it. And it was an undated version, so we don't really get any of our content either. So it's it's on a conversational page, so you could drop your email, but you don't have to to to do that. And I think it was a great way to get people to to learn more about the resource. And another one that we've done with him specifically is promote our product tours, so get people to like want to like play around with the product that I've built, um, so that they can try different things without having to talk to sales. Yeah, yeah, I love both of those ideas. By the way, that I just I've completely ignored at a couple of questions that I had be because you definitely sparked my interest. So I'm gonna do a little bit more Dinny after this call, um, just for myself. You mentioned you guys built a playbook. So first of all, before I even go into a few more questions, I am curious, what is your team look like at Alice? Yes, so right now we have we have about a ten person team I believe in. So we have you know, product to product marketers, A couple of creative people are head of marketing, so I'm on the customer marketing side, and then our revenue marketing team has you know, events, s c O, content growth which manages are paid and organic as well. So we have a pretty Yeah. I mean it's not a huge team, but we actually do everything in house ourselves. So we pride ourselves on being able to do that because that's you know, we're a scrappy team. We can make a lot happen. And I feel like we've gotten a lot of people to know who Alice is and like what we do by not having to, like yo, go like out of our way to make it happen. And you mentioned you're you're focusing a lot on retention and evangelism for your customers. Talk me through some of the strategies that you guys are launching that have been most successful this year. Yes, so so, first off, I've never done customer marketing before, so like this is all new to me, which is why the community piece, which again we could talk about, comes into it because like I've had to rely on other people that I know who are customer markers that have been doing it for ten years, to like ask questions, bounce ideas off of um. And that's been really crucial for me. Like the focus...

...for me is a couple of things. So reviews, how do we increase reviews specifically on G two? How do we release new customer stories? As a marketer, like everyone you know you have these case studies, and I feel like case studies are so fluffy, um, like who puts out bad case studies? Like you're never gonna say your products terrible or anything like that. But instead of doing a regular case study, I said, I want to do a tactical playbook from our customers. So like if someone you know, I'll give you a good example six cents, they're a customer of ours and so like they've had incredible success, so I want to capture that success and tell others what campaigns they're running, how they're running these campaigns step by step with pictures and everything, so that they can go run these playbooks for themselves. So not only does that help with retention, but it also helps on the acquisition side. And then the last thing is customer calmns. So like just you know, doing regular updates across you know, in app, messages, email, social, all these things to make sure that everyone knows of all the integration that we have. Product updates, we release a lot of new features regularly, so making sure that you know, our user base understands all that absolutely loved the playbook. Get example instead of a case study. I am totally going to take that idea. Uh, this is such a great conversation. Like, second of all, you know, he mentioned that your TED person team, and I understand that you're the first, you say the first time during customer marketing. How often are you having to interact with the other other teams at LAS, like the product team, right engineering team, so you can understand the features and the integrations. Is that something that you're regularly doing so that you can build it into your own strategies. Yeah. Absolutely, So it's it's something where you know, products CS, our account management team, the rest of the members of the marketing team, especially like our growth and kind of design team is very important, our product marketing team to spin ups different things as well. And again being a team of one. On the customer marketing side, there's like a million things that I want to do and that I realized we have to do. However, you're a team of one, and it's okay to be able to say no to things and focus on the things that you know will make an impact and so being able to be locked step. But especially we have a brand new VP of CS and so her and I have really formed an incredible relationship since she's been here about the last month or so, and so we you know, we have everything perfectly planned out. We know where we want to go in three but again it's laying the foundational framework to make sure that we're going to be successful when we get there. Yeah. Do you think that, um, Because you know, typically I think especially startups when they think about customer marketing, I feel like, typically you're not going to hire someone especially when you're just starting out, you're much you're much smiler team, maybe a team of five people or whatever. Is that something worth investing in and thinking about to actually have someone fully hired to help with retention and help with customer marke geting initiatives or is that something you think most you know, mature B two B organizations should probably think about. Yes, it's funny. I actually wrote a post on this yesterday because I think that it's so important to actually focus on the the reason being like we're in a down market like recession, whatever you want to call it. Like it's going to be cheaper to retain your current customers than it is to acquire a new one. So why not put a resource there that will help not only help retain, educate, inspire, but also grow these accounts, expand them and then focus on like what you can do to make them become advocates on your behalf so that you're helping out on the acquisition side. And so I think, regardless of company side, I think it's something where you should whether it's a full time resource or like splitting time, there should be someone that has the retention piece as part of their job. Responsibilities regardless of company size, because I do think in this market it's incredibly important. Yeah, I'll definitely did a look at that post because yeah, and you definitely brought up a very very good point. And now let's just rewrite a little bit and go back to that post that I was talking to you about before we hit record. This is how I learned about you, Nick, But you gotta and I'm sure a lot of a lot of the our listeners most likely have heard about you solidy because of this as well. I definitely did you Gotta both go viral and LinkedIn around G two reviews. I've also heard there's been a couple of posts that I'll talk to you about little bit later around G two that I've also been floating around recently, So we'll we'll we'll touch on that in a bit. But you drove sevent three new reviews in about two days. Talked me through that, and then talked me through kind of the chatter that happened in your comments section and the jeffering opinions, and just share with me why you think people were People were like aggressively like they loved it, and then some people were really angry about it, so talk to me about what you learned from that too. Yeah, so you know it. I feel like with G two reviews, it's something where everyone usually waits to like the end of the quarter, and then it's like you're like, crap, like the reports coming up,...

I need to go get reviews. And so I did the same thing, and I now have a better process to do do this monthly. But so my goal was like, all right, great, how can I go capture people that have left an MPs review in the product in the last ninety days. So I went to our engineering team. They pulled me a list of everything, so it was nice and easy for me to read. I just basically uploaded that into Marcato and then I personally from me, I wrote it. It came from me. I sent an email that said, hey, you know, I would love to send you a gift, you know, for an honest review. I don't care if it's good feedback bad feedback. You have to have a solid product to be able to get feedback one way or another, and hopefully good feedback. So I sent that out to It was a couple of hundred people and we ended up getting the So originally it was seventy three and two days. That actually ended up expanding to about eighty three over the course of like a week and a half. There was people that trickled in like each day and it was really nice. And so I said, hey, listen, lead the review and I will send you an Alice gift in return, and I promise it won't be a gift card. However, you could exchange it for a gift card if that's what you want. But I want to show one the power of the products so that people can like say like, oh wow, you know you're usually always gifting. Now I get a gift in return and it's personalized to me. And so I just basically sent each person a gift they accepted or exchanged it or donated the value to a charity of their choice, and we just saw so much success from it. And actually our fall g two reports were like through the roof. We end up getting like thirty seven or something badges like that, and it was a really great way to do it. And I'm I'm now doing it where I can automate it on a monthly basis, so I don't have to wait till the end of the quarter. But we'll see how how Q three stacks up. So I posted about it, and I didn't tell anyone internally I was going to post this, and I literally shared my email that I use, which wasn't earth shattering, super or basic. I shared exactly what I did, step by step, and I just focused on like hopefully helping one other person. And I didn't expect a post like that to go viral. And I've had a few go viral over the last two and a half years, and it's always the ones that like, you never expect to be honest with you. And the amount of people there were so many people that loved it. They're like, oh, I'm staling this or I'm tagging people, and that ended up that post ended up getting almost five thousand views on it, which was crazy. And so I had a lot of people on the other side who were calling me unethical, that I was doing something wrong. The amount of people that deemed me and like harassed me, especially competitors of other companies that were like, I can't believe you're doing this, like I'm gonna get you fired. I was like, well, what is going on? And I've listen, I've been creating content for a while I understand as soon as you hit post there's always gonna be people who don't like what you right, But I've never gotten it as bad as like this time. And I was just like listen, like, it's not like I'm paying someone to say, Hey, I'm gonna give you a gift, but you have to give me a ten like or five or whatever the number is. Like, I'm giving you a gift in exchange for honest feedback. And if you're a B two B marketer and like you think this is not happening, then you have like other bigger issues that you need to figure out first, because this is something that every company that I mean, I've gotten about ten of them in the last month and a half from other companies asking me for the same thing in giving me a gift card or giving me something, and so it was just it was really interesting to see. Like I said, I just wanted to help one person, and I didn't expect it to to to go as big as that and to have as many people one be on the fence of loving it and then too being on the fensive hating it. Yeah, that is okay. So I have some thoughts. First off, I loved it. I screenshot today because I was like, hey, I'm gonna take this idea second. Of all, Um, I am shocked that you did get the kind of hate that you did, and I was reading a lot of people did say it was an ethical and it's like, I'm sorry, are you not on G two? Are you not? Are you not on store sporge? Like either you've never done a review campaign before or you've never reviewed a product, because I will tell you, even you know what we're doing, there is no way anyone's gonna send out a campaign to their lowest NPS scores, right, You're you're strategic about who you send out these um your emails too, and even the gifting, like it's it ingrained in the companies that have built out these you know, these these review platforms, which I found bonkers. So I'm thinking they're just they need that haters they there because they were probably you know, just annoyed that they haven't seen the results that you have. So yeah, and there was there was, actually there was there was one person that tried to extort me. It was it was weird, like literally was like, you need to hire my company to fix this you right now. I was like fix what and...

...like he was like, I'm going to the FBI, and I was just like, dude, I was just like, you are absolutely crazy. That is uh that Yeah, I'm so sorry that you went to that, I really but I'm glad that you shared that because if it never happens to any of us will know, we'll know that it's okay. You know, Nip was okay everything, and I'll be okay. No one needs to extort us. We don't have anything to be scared of. So I really appreciate you sharing that story. UM. I had another. So I've had a couple of UM I've been on LinkedIn and I've been reading a sew other posts. I'm kind of curious on your thoughts on this. There was a post that I read. I don't know who wrote it, and there was a lot of chatter underneath it as well about you know, some of these reviews sides, they almost give these badges like candy nowt to everyone, and there's you know, what used to be kind of assigned, an actual badge that could differentiate you from others, is now every single well we know, right we go to websites, everyone's doing it, so kind of curious. Do you think that's something that holds a lot of value out or there are other things that people can do to show the value and credibility in their in their platform and their product beyond. Like I feel like the you know, the weight that badges the stuff you still a little they don't hole them anymore, yet people still include them just because they've they've always exactly and well, you know, you know, taking a step back, like no one should a solely by based on a review site, like and if people think like that's literally like if I was to get a demo today and like go to G two and like that's it. Like I think there's a bigger issue in the buying process, like most people are, you know, leveraging pairs, networks, communities is a great way. Like I mean, I can't tell you how many times I don't even I don't personally, I don't even go to review sites to look at products. Like I will post in a community and I will ask about five close friends that I know that are in tech, will say, hey, what do you use for X, Y Z? And I'll take that list. I'll go get a demo from two or three of those companies. Maybe four if there's a big spread, and then I will pick one of those companies based on what my friends and what my network says versus what you know, other places say, Like I don't even have the time go to the website. Like again, I trust the people that I'm connected with in the communities that I'm into, Like they've all they've done the research, they've done all of this, and so like they're sharing their experience with me, and I think that's I think that's the way I mean every you know, dark social, that whole thing, Like, I think that's the way people are buying now. Oh definitely. I even think about myself if I've ever researched a tool or attack that I'm interested in, it's it has never you know, come from like a G two badge or it's never come from there, although I do love you two, but it definitely has not come from there. It's come from sub stacks of people that I'm following that I've been following, you know, they're newsletter for a while, and I trust them. I trust their opinion. I don't know them personally, but um, I've been following their journey for like, you know, a couple of years. It's come from UM. Some of the big you know, influencers on LinkedIn, people that have built a community, would even come from people like you. Right. If I see then you recommended a product because I follow you and I trust you based off of the credibility you have built, I will trust that. I will actually go and I'll do a demo. So you're right, you know, UM, you forget UM, even especially marketers we are. There was a conversation that I had recently and it's like travistality. I've had it recently and shared it on one of this podcast, But you are your I c P. What would you do? How are you exploring new technology? Do that? And when you shared? Is that maybe not like traditionally what people have done UM in the past, But like I'm feeling like error UM, like the kind of the community now and the kind of people that are creating right now, that's what they're doing. Yeah, No, I I agree with And I think, like, you know, there's still lots of people that will leverage like you know, a G two or cap terror or whatever to like as part of their buying process. But yeah, you know, definitely go check it out. But like don't put like all of your weight into like just like yo that or like their website or whatever. Like it's still I think it's still like we again, people buy from people, and if you can experience that buying process with others that you trust, that have gone through it and that you value their opinion, I think that outweighs really anything else. Yeah, h I want to shift years a little bit and talk about you. You're also a fellow podcast for like myself, but for your own podcast that you founded, Wrap your Brand. Tell me the origin story of this podcast, what sparked this and when she started talk to me a little bit about that. Yes, so it's it's it will actually be two years in January, and so it was more something where it's funny enough. I had a company approached me and they were like, hey, we would love to do a podcast on your behalf and like you be the the host. And they gave me,...

...like, you know, some ideas and it was around like personal branding, how do you open doors for other marketers that you never thought were possible? Really? And so for me, I was like, great, this is a way to to interview people like you know, justin Welch Chris Walker, Dave Gerhardt, people that have been doing this for years and years that I could then take that information and one share it with everyone, but to implement a lot of what they suggest and recommend and build those relationships with them as well. It was really fantastic. I mean we've now done like forty something episodes, I believe, and we're going to actually be going through a rebrand of the show early next year. And so the goal is to take it from personal branding, which I feel like, you know, I don't want to say it's played out like a lot of people are talking about that, and I feel like it's sometimes like you just know, like things become stale, and so I want to really take it to a point where it's going to be focused on I'll have a website B two B. Marketers can go to this website and submit a non A A mious questions like secrets like hey, I'm getting fired tomorrow, Like what would you recommend I do if I've never done X y Z before? Things like that like or if you need career advice, marketing advice, audience building help like whatever. Drop these anonymous questions in there, and then myself and I'll bring on like special guest hosts like fireside chat it and we'll just really riff on it for like twenty minutes or so. And I think it'll be a fun way to like kind of like reignite that that flame a little bit. I don't want to say I've lost it. It's you know, it's still something I enjoy. I just feel like, you know, two years, it's time to switch things up a little bit. Yeah, I absolutely love that idea. So I think you should totally do it, and I'm glad that you are doing it. When you do, definitely share it with us because we want to with our community. I think it's a fantastic idea to go straight to the source. Um and there's and it's what a wonderful way to also source some of the best questions that people are thinking about and also turn what could kind of end up more podcast right, they they risk falling into like the tribute, which even even sometimes when when I some of the this has been like eight months I've been doing this in the beginning, I'm like, damn, like Jazz Good, you need to stop question to answer, question to answer, question to answer. How do you turn it into a conversation. This fields were like a conversation because you're absolutely like getting my getting my brain, um thinking about any of things that I'm actually you know, I'm I'm really interested in and learning for myself. But um, I love that idea. And to bring in someone an expert, I'm sure you're gonna be very strategic about who you bring in depending on the question. I absolutely love that idea, and and I'm very thanking for you, Thank you, I appreciate. Yeah, it's that I've been thinking about that for a while and I thought of like creating a separate podcast about that, but I talked to you know, I talked to the people that produce it for me, and they just said, like, listen, why don't we just you know, why don't we pivot this? And you know, I don't. I get a couple of hundred downloads per episodes. Still, it's I mean, it's not the earth mattering, but I have a loyal base that listens to it. But I just feel like, I just like, you know, you know when it's time, you definitely know. Yeah, So you've built a large community on LinkedIn. You're all obviously still planning on reinvesting in that community. You've shared it a little bit about the podcast the rebrand. Where in your career journey did you go from just you know, just being a marketer to all of a sudden just leveling up And if you could go back in time, think about this the changes that you had made. And I'm kind of curious when when that happened, when that ship happened for you talk to me a bit about that. Yes, So I don't know if you follow Kyle coleman um from from Clary at all on on LinkedIn, but he I used to work for Clary. He was actually my boss at the time, and we were in I remember it was in Um at the time, February of right before the pandemic like really hit and like we thought we would just be home for two weeks and we were in Laguna Beach at our revenue kickoff and we were chat and he was just like he was telling me about everything that he's been able to do from LinkedIn and like he is, you know, he's crushing it there. And he's like, you know, why don't you talk about field marketing on LinkedIn? Like you know, at the time six and fifty million plus users, No, one talks about it, like what the misconceptions are it's more than an event planner, how does it play into a larger revenue organization? And I was like, oh, yeah, that's kind of cool. So he's like, I'm gonna challenge you. And I love challenges. I'm big into sports. I'm very competitive, so when anyone challenges me to anything, I'm all in. And he's like, I'm gonna challenge you to talk about this for three months, and I was like all right, cool. And so I did it, and like I didn't get any likes or comments. Really, it was like I would get like a couple hundred views on each post. And I remember after three months he's like, oh, you know, really, good job. You stuck with it. I was like yeah, but I'm not getting anything out of it, and he's just like, well, why not keep going? And I was like all right, cool. And so it took me till six months of posting five days a week consistently before I saw any traction. And this wasn't even any great...

...traction, was literally just a little bump. I was like, oh that's cool. Like now I'm getting like two thousand views purpose like a couple of comments, a couple of d M s like this is fun, and then I just kept going and it took me till a year before I saw like any like big up upticks and I was like, oh cool, al right, this is this is what it was. And I was I was known as like the field marketing person, like, hey, if you have field marketing questions, go ask Nick, Like I was doing podcasts specifically about field marketing and events around that, and um, I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. And then it allowed me to expand into a b M and personal branding and just now I just talked about whatever I want, like I have no filter and I've been doing it now for two and a half years, and like the doors that it's opened for me, both from a personal perspective but also as a professional perspective, it's been fantastic, Like I have access to cmos and vps of marketings from like fortune five hundred companies that I would never get access to before. I can just send them a quick message and I'll get to reply back. And like being able to one not having to worry about using a resume again, like I have an updated my resume in a few years now like hopefully and if if not, I've done this completely wrong. But like say I was to get laid off today, like I could post on LinkedIn, hopefully I would get a bunch of d m s offering me some type of job. And so that's the thing, Like I don't want to use a resume. I don't want to have to like worry about reords or my boss leaving or like anything like that. I'm trying to set myself up for like long term success, and I think that LinkedIn and being able to create consistently for this long now has really played a piece. And it's interesting because I was talking to again a friend about this the other day. I was like, you know, two and a half years ago, there was and there was so many other creators that were on LinkedIn that are nowhere to be found now, Like they just it's what happens. People think that like they just jump in and like that's all they do, and like they just post post posts and then they burn out after a year or so or a year and a half and like they disappear. And like there was a few people that I was close with two and a half years ago that they're not even on LinkedIn anymore. They literally were just like I couldn't take it, and it's it's not easy, it's it's you know, it's a grind, especially when it's not your full time job either. And now not only do I create there, I have a Twitter, I have a TikTok, and you know, trying to really just double down on LinkedIn and TikTok right now. I feel like those are my my top two and just see what happens. Yeah, I don't know how you do it. Um So, first of all, if you did, you know, I don't think you would. But if you did ever lose your job, your hunter present right, because I would have gone to our CEO and say, hey, this guy like we get to have because yeah, you definitely know a lot of the stuff that you've been sharing has been very, very valuable. That's where you're attracting again. Maybe you started with the old marketing and a b M. Now a lot of the people that are finding you they're finding you because of like customer marketing stuff that you're sharing. I actually started posting a little bit very inconsistently, like about a year and a half ago. Then I got a promotion and then I'm like, God, I don't have time for anything, and then it's like you don't want to post for the sake of posting. Well, the way I see it, it's like, man, I could I when something comes to me or I have an awesome idea or have an experience that really moved me that I want to share, but I've completely stopped, and I understand there's so much value in that and we know it even im. I'll just take like Growth Marketing Camp for example, we've been UM doing this. Now this is gonna be our second year and we're finally seeing you know, UM will be on LinkedIn and people are actually talking about, hey, you should check out this part. And it's like, oh my god, wow, you know, people actually talk about us and you're seeing, you know what, the end up being a much smaller snowball that took so long for it to get to shape up. Now it started, you know, the growth and the volume is so much it's like it's magnified right compared to how it was a year ago. How do people post every single day without creating content that even like you're not enjoying you know, reading? Do you do you keep a log of stuff? Like if something hits you, you just you know, how do you how do you do that? Yeah, it's so, I mean, I I completely agree with you that you shouldn't post just a post and like if if there's things And this is actually not the advice that I took initially, but it's what I give a lot of people now is like, go find ten to twenty other like minded people that you want to learn from, that you know, that create content and go comment on their stuff every day, add to the conversation, add to the community, because what's going to happen, especially if you're one of the first people there, You're gonna organically build that base back to your own profile without having to create content. Like it's it's you know, if you jump on a Justin Welsher Chris Walker, you're one of those people's posts and you're one of those first people and thousands of people see it, you probably would actually drive more likes from that comment than, like, especially early on, like a post of your own.

And so it's something where I, if I could go back, I would actually do that now. And I don't. There's no like for me, there's no list of like you know, I just scroll if there's content that's interesting, like, I engage with it. I don't have a list that I go by anymore, but there is people that I check out regularly. UM, and you know, obviously Chris is definitely one of them, and there's there's some others, but I just kind of like scroll at this point. I don't do a ton of scrolling anymore. UM, it's more just trying to engage with everyone that it's commenting on myself, especially when I'm posting two times a day. My process is actually not again what I would recommend to people, but it's something that's worked for me for two and a half years now. And so I don't write down anything. I literally each morning, I figure out what I'm going to talk about, and if it takes me longer than five minutes to write that post, I don't do it because then I start to over analyze, and you get into that over analytical mind where you're never going to actually hit the post because it's in your mind. You'll be like, oh, do people actually like this? And you're gonna hit back space, backspace, backspace type type type backspace, backspace, back space, and you're gonna just keep on doing that and you're gonna get into that that that same like cycle. And so I always tell myself literally like I just I work better by winging it, Like if I like, I can I wing my life, like I don't really have much of a plan about anything, to be honest with you, and like it's just worked out really well for me. However, I do not recommend that to anyone, especially starting out, because it's going to hurt you in the consistency side of it, because you're gonna be like, oh, what do I talk about? And so you know, drop it in your notes app or drop it into notion or Google doc or something, or record, you send yourself a Slack or text message. Lots of things that you can do to be able to have that content. But one thing that I do think is very helpful to people is when you are engaging with these other people that you want to learn from, a lot of these comments sections are actually the best place to learn. It's a great way to learn, educate, and inspire, which will then actually hopefully help you create your own content if you're stuck or something. M Yeah, um, but a lot of a lot of great insane what you just shared. So um, one you're at a point where you've built the muscle, so it's just natural for you. So I'm gonna take a look at your linked in later during my lunch break, and I'm just gonna go through, Like, damn, it took a five minutes to write all of you. But like I think in the very beginning, when you find your voice, especially if you haven't done this before, and you actually have a consistent um, like if you have to find some sort of a theme, then we'll eventually get to your point if you're if you're posting consistently, which is where I think you're starting to get to. The less than five minutes. Alright, let's run with it. I love that. That's also awesome advice. Last question, then we'll move into rapid fire, and then I'll let you go. What is one lesson in your career that's taking you the longest to ull learn? I would say, don't be afraid to delegate. I have always been the type of person that likes control and like being able to like if I don't like if I have to rely on others, both personally professionally, like and I've I've played baseball in my entire life it's again it's like you know your team, like I've always been a picture. It's like the game is in my hands, like I'm the one out there driving this, and like it's part of the reason why I feel like I like that control. But I've realized that, like you can't scale that way, and that it's okay for others to be able to to take these things on and like do you have to coach them at times? Especially if like they're there on your team, You're like, yeah, maybe, but like help them out. Like everyone should be able to take on new things and learn and just not have to rely on one person. Because what if you get hit by a bus tomorrow, Okay, no one knows what you're doing. You're basically everything that you had in your mind is gone because you didn't delegate, You didn't share with anyone any of that. Um. And so I feel like it took me a while to figure that out. Now I'll delegate anything now, I don't care. You wanna you wanna like help me do something. Absolutely, Let's let's figure out a way to you know, drop this campaign, like strategically think about it together. Um. And it's been it's been fun to like release that, take it off my shoulders. I love that you shared that. I also so when I came into the director role, I struggle with that, mostly for control, but also for man my you know my team is stretched, then I don't want to give them another thing. I'll just do it myself. But I also read a treet recently. It was from someone named Ooded Ray Chabby. It's only a promotion if it increases a percentage of time and s been thinking and the amount of time that I have that I'm scrambling to get stuff done, push them through the doors. And I wonder when am I going to get to the point where I can sit and really think? Right thanks through a certain um new initiatives, planning for next year, right thinking through customer marking initiatives, because you know, I know for sure our company could do a much better job reducing short and supporting our success team. But the only way that's going to be possible is by being a little bit more strategic and delegating the work. Not you know, whether it's for control or not wanting to like...

...stretch your team with thin then it's the power of saying no, what you posted today, right, You're post from today and it resonated with me. I like, I need to be way like And it's and especially the smaller teams where you've got a smaller way you and teams where everyone has an input. They all have ideas like, hey, we should go to this a bet you know, the CEO will say share check out these three events or you know someone else and other v people say check this out. And it's like, I cannot prioritize everything. And we've got our marketing engine that we have to continue to run beyond that. Then we've got okay, rs right, We've got all this, all this other planning to do. If I'm not allocating the work amongst my team and then using that if I've realized it's not possible, we can't get you know, we can't get it done. Give me more resources or give me more budget. Definitely, it has been my struggle this year, which I'm slowly starting to to realize again, Nick, this has been the best conversation that I've had so far because I have ready so much um and you know, feelings that I've had. You're just you know, you're adding to some of the ideas that I'm like, Okay, I got to prioritize this. Love it such a good conversation. I know you've got a busy day and where basically at the mark, So I've got rapid fire very very quickly. And then I'll let you go, Um, what is your favorite B two B brand? Why? And then B two C brand? Why? Um? B two B brand? I don't know, if I to be honest with you, I actually don't have like favorite brands B two B or B two C. Like I mean I have brands I like, like, you know, Refined Labs, Gong clearly, I mean Alice. Like there's brands that I like in you know, brands that make me laugh on like social media. On the B two C side, you know, there's company accounts that I follow on TikTok, like dual Lingo that like is like hilarious and like it's I don't I wouldn't say I'm a favorite, but there's like companies that like if they make me laugh, I I enjoy them. Yeah, I recently the Winter's LinkedIn has made me laugh a couple of time. So I like that you post what makes you smile today? Honestly, this this podcast is Yeah, I mean I'm a very I'm a big person where like I love smiling, I love laughing because if you're not laughing, like you're not really living life. And so like I'm not a serious type of person. So same, I'm not serious at all. And there were types for my house and be like, hey, you know you're you need to you just don't cracking jokes. And I'm like, they're just looking jokes like but you were in the public section, but you know, they're a little bit more like you know, And I'm like, no, that will objective that, Like I could crack jokes. I could swear too. What is your spirit fruit? I don't know. I would say maybe like like like watermelon. I don't know. I've actually never been asked that question before. That's the point of of this podcast. We asked questions that people though watermelon. Why Yeah, I mean, I just I love the taste of it. I feel like it's such like a fun fruit. It's like juicy, and it's like it reminds me of summer too, and it's like, oh man, I wished summer because now it's getting cold. I turned my heat on for the first time this week. Yeah, yeah, i'd say, you know, watermelon, especially because it's fun and vibrant. Yeah, no, I like it. I like watermelon for you, What is your favorite drink? Honestly, I drink water most of the time, although cold brew coffee like. So I drink cold brew like every morning and then I switched to water the rest of the day. But I just have like one cup of coffee in the morning and then that's it. But I love a good. I love a good like cold brew coffee, not like the generic crap. Yeah, I love I love cold grew. I definitely need to love water. I have you know, suck bass and I can out love water. Maybe the pH needs to be moved. Um, what is a pet pee? Do you have? Oh? When people pitch slap me on LinkedIn and it happened it happened by a VP yesterday and it was so annoying and I called them out on it. I say, come on, dude, you can be better than this yr a VP and I never got to reply back. So yeah, I think every every Yeah, I love that you share that I can outstand. I almost get scared when someone sends me a connection TORP because I feel like, is this sick person that's going to pitch slot me and they always do. What title would you give this chapter in your life? Risk? Like just being able to take risks. Like I'm at a point where like I don't I don't, I don't care if I lose my job tomorrow. I feel like I've done a lot to set myself up for feature success and I'm okay with risk. I'd like taking on new challenges and like trying different things and if it doesn't work out, like, hey, I'm still young enough that, like it's not going to cripple me. Yeah, I like that. Um, if you could pick one superpower, what would you choose? Teleporting? Like I would love to like one. Like I used to fly like three times a month and like do events, and like I don't even enjoy flying anymore, but like if I could just teleport from like here to like Vancouver or like Italy or something and like be there in like two seconds, it would...

...be so fun to me. Yeah, Nightcrawler was my favorite X Men, and uh yeah, I love the teleboarding. Recently, though, I decided to change mind to being able to talk to animals because I'm like that best way to wind down scroll TikTok. I usually I usually do. I usually do it at night, um and just it's it's mindless, you don't even really think about it. So yeah, and then you get that stop you've been scrolling for some walkie. What would your TikTok algorithms say about you? Oh? I get like so much random stuff. I'm I like f y peple, like, I get like marketing stuff, and then I get like I was getting like those like like the Bammer Rush, like like college things for a while, like the dances, and then I get like teacher stuff randomly. It's it's all I literally don't even know how it gets on there, but I still watch endlessly. So the same. So I I have addicted to TikTok um. I'll boll you, what is one thing you cannot live without? Oh, I'd probably say my cell phone. It's like I I usually work a lot of it off of that, like LinkedIn, I run off of their. I don't really use the web version, so like I don't even really need a laptop to be honest with you, outside to do video like this, I could just honestly operate everything. And that's the beauty of like working remote and being in tech. It's like you can do answer, slack, emails, all that on your phone, so it's like, you know it's important. Yeah, I can't live without my phone either, so we definitely have a Yeah, I feel like my phone is that it's is like an extension of my body. Now, like about as well, just be an organ yea, what is one book you'd recommend to our audience and why? So this is funny enough. I actually don't read books. Um, and some people like like question me on that, but like I actually, like I just I was never much of a book reader, even through like school, like I just morange, I was a very visual learner, and so I actually get I would say the majority of my content like sports, like tech marketing, all on like LinkedIn Twitter, like I enjoy the social platforms to like give me the information that I need as well as like events and stuff. Yeah yeah no, and that's fair And then I love let you share that. I know if Alvo show earlier and someone asked me, i'd really cool. I got away. I can what do we gotta come up with, like you know, um, Seth Godin's blog or something like that, No own it to present. I have not read this year. I've done a couple. I feel like there's no time, but I could make time. I've got a couple of books, you like, I have a problem of going to the bookstore, grabbing my latte and like enjoying the you know, selecting a book process, and then I put it on my desk, but it just collects dunts. I'm going to get through them. I will get through them one day. Who inspires you or who should we invite on the show? Oh? You know someone that I think is is someone that has inspired me a lot is actually funny enough. It's it's my boss, so like our VP of marketing and so it's someone that I've known for years and he's a friend of mine. I brought him into the company, but he was a mentor to me for years and he was VP of marketing you know, very large companies early on in his career. And he's helped me a lot outside of learning like you know again like film marketing a b M I get, and he's helped like open me up and like learn him a lot more about like these other pieces of marketing and not saying that I want to be a CMO or VP of marketing one day, but like it's it's helped me, I think, be a better overall well rounded marketer. Yeah, I love it. And what was his name, Pete Lorenko Lorenko. Okay, so maybe we'll wait for you to do the intro. We can invite a world to the show as well. Absolutely, but thank you so much. Nicklas was one of my favorite conversations. I have a handful that I'm like, man, I absolutely so the conversation I had with Travis Tyler. I love that conversation. So you're definitely up there with with Travis. Um. I personally got so much value from it. I know where audience is going to as well, especially because you know when you're actually having a conversation and the stuff is not like rocket science and stuff that you could very easily do yourself. It's just it's it's so like it is phenomenal. There's ideas, there's notes that I'm planning on taking. Um, you shared lots of value for me in our community, So thank you so much. On behalf of both bright being camp and how people connect with you and find you. Yeah. So so definitely LinkedIn is probably the easiest way, you know, reach out happy, you know, send me a d M and happy to chat there. I have done again and tried to do a better job of saying no, because I was getting people one to like, like meet with me every single week. So I've just told people like, no, I'm not doing meetings anymore. Um And honestly it's made me feel a lot better. But like, feel free to like DM me and ask me questions things like that. I'm happy to reply to those.

Yeah, and just listen to this episode because you're gonna get a lot of the questions you probably want to be asked. But thankful again, Nick, it was great having you on the show. Thank you so much for having it was an absolute pleasure. Thanks for listening to Growth Marketing Camp. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you would give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to strengthen their skills with tips and inspiration. You want to learn more about the company behind the show, head to open Sense dot com. That's O P E N S E N s E dot com. We'll catch you on the next episode.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (74)