Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 27 · 1 year ago

How to Make Rebrand Magic With Everyone On Board

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Pete Larkin joined Anglepoint before it was a well known entity in the SAM managed services space. In fact, they did most of their business through the channel and often got called “Angel”point. Needless to say, the brand needed to stand out and Pete was the marketer for the job. The rebrand Pete planned took education, investment, and active listening just to get off the ground. He shares with us all the nitty gritty details and some critical insights into successfully rebranding with incredible outcomes.

Welcome to growth marketing camp, where we sit down with our favorite marketers to de mystify growth and give you the insights to help turn your next campaign into a major success. Let's get into it, all right. Welcome to an exciting episode of Growth Marketing Camp. Really pleased to be joined by Pete Larkin, who's the senior director of marketing and customer experience at Angle Point. He also teaches marketing at Ensign College and has been doing freelance film work for over thirteen years. Pete, welcome to the show. Thanks, REX man. I appreciate the invitation. I'm excited to be here. decided to hang with you. Yeah, absolutely same here. So, looking at your background, we kind of have a little bit of a mirrored background here. You and I both went to Brigham Young University. I saw you went to school for Communications. I originally was was going to school for Communications. I was plan on going into journalism and ended up going down a different route. But when you were going to school for Comms, did you know you were heading into a marketing career? was there something else you were shooting for? Absolutely not. No, in fact, I actually started my career out in film and in Bay's film program and I was really enjoying it, but at the same time I actually had a video production company and we were actually doing really well. It's got me through school, paid for you paid for college. And as I was meeting with one of my mentors at Byu about out the film program he said, you know, you should really consider by US AD program and their school of Communications. He said there's a lot about film that you have already learned through your life that going through our program like definitely can help you grow and improve in that space. But like, you have a lot of what some of our grads walk away with, so you may consider looking at something else to really try and add to your, you know, your skills and capabilities. And I was a little bit reluctant, to be honest, when he said that. I was like no, man like films my jam, like this is where I'm going, and he was like, well, you know, it's your deal, you know, but it's a recommendation and you know, really respect this particular mentor, and so I took that advice and I went and I looked at the school of Communications, looked at their AD program and found out that they were one of the highest ranked programs, add programs in the nation and I, yeah, I decided I'm going to give it a go, and so I applied. You know, I got in and man, I loved it. It was incredible and, you know, found myself, although I love film, just found myself going more towards, you know, down a marketing career path. And, to be honest, some of that advice that he gave me as the most cherished and best advice that I've received on how I'm pactful. It's been to my career. Yeah, and it just fun, man, just a lot of fun. That's wonderful. Yeah, I think about the importance of having a mentor around you who's willing to tell you something that's a little maybe outside your comfort zone. Hey, you already know enough to get by here in a significant...

...way. You know why you go do something, I. Really Stretch Yourself, and that can be it can be hard. I've met a lot of marketers who did not intend on going into marketing. I think it's fun that you start in film because that still fits very naturally. Do a component of marketing that you can tap into. And ahead of hitting record here, you mentioned that you do travel to go film customers and their experiences and learn more about them through film. Is that something you've done, you know, throughout your marketing career as leverage film more? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that film background has been a huge help and support, great foundation. Sometimes, when I talk with people who are, you know, recent grads out of school, people who are trying to figure out, you know, how to really kick off their career, one of the kind of advice that I share now is to kind of figure out, like what is your superpower, right, what is the thing that you're really really good at, and to become a specialist in that particular thing, because earlier on in careers, companies aren't really wanting to hire someone to come in with WHO's a recent Grad, doesn't have a lot of industry experience, doesn't have a lot of life career experience, to come in and be, say, like a strategist or a manager, because they just they don't have the depth yet, right, they're just building out that depth. And so if you have a particular skill set that you can be, you know, the pro at, you can like a specialty that a company can hire you for to execute and implement the strategy that they already have in place that that that's what they're looking for, more entry level, kind of early career employees, so that some of that advice I give is like to get a lot of tactical hands on depth and then from their build out that that strategic component and build out on your understanding of your industry and the and kind of learn how to grow a bigger vision of how all those pieces to come together and learn how to expand those tactical capabilities across other components of your industry. And then there's like a shift. There's it's kind of gradual, comes more to you know, eight to maybe ten years into your career, where you start becoming less tactical, the less hands on, more strategic and then more into leadership positions, unless you're going to take an individual contributor role, take that route where you're just become the the expert in one particular component of your of your industry, right, which is great, but that's kind of where I was right as like I built that foundation for myself, like that foundation, that superpower that I had was kind of in storytelling, in film, and it was kind of a shift into brand development and branding. But that's kind of where for me, like where I started out, that career specialty was kind of in film and storytelling. Yeah, you're not the first marketer to come on the show and say that either. That's really fascinating. is almost like hearing the words Repeata back from Kevin Babowski, who's that SPP marketing area software. Exact same experience, except not in film, in a different segment of marketing, but being a specialist, being excellent at it, being known for it, and when you could be known for something, that's always a good thing. You know, that's often...

...where marketers end of deciding between, you know, let's maybe go build our own agency that does just a special thing, which you find a bunch of amazing agencies that started that way, or hey, I want to go learn another skill or learn how to apply the strategy to these channels that am excellent at. That's great advice. Yeah, well, I imagine you have also benefited the angle point team a lot with you, as you mentioned branding, in your experience with branding and turning from film and adds into really excellent brand work. We're going to dig into the campaign. That really isn't like a start and stop campaign like your traditional like an ad campaign, but it's more of a shift that you created with an angle point. Talk US through this rebrand that you went through as you came in. What was the you know, the lay of the land when you walked into angle point? And then what did you want to become a hun to get there? Yeah, absolutely. When I first came into angle point we were very heavy in partner sales. The majority of our business, I'd probably say eighty percent, was partner business and twenty percent was direct, and that was something that we really wanted to flip on our head. We want to, you know, be eighty percent direct, twenty percent business or a partner sales, and I knew that if we were going to want to get there, we really needed to have, you know, a strong image, is strong presence within our market place and for people to know who we are and when I got there. It's funny. Of My colleagues and I laugh. We joke about this because because when we would be at an industry event or meeting with new prospects, we would talked about angle point, they'd say, yeah, I've heard about you. Sorry, what is your comp Angel Point? I've heard of Angel Point. What do you guys do again and if you know for a while, it's embarrassing when people get your name wrong, right, and so we would have to correct them be like Oh, actually, like it's angle point, is who we are, and so that was something that, like, I really wanted to fix. Right there was kind of this mentality of why do we need to focus so much on our brand perception when we're so much focused on our partners and so much, you know, so much of our sales as through partners, and I knew is if we're going to have that shift and too much more of a direct business and to really take our place as a leader in our particular marketplace, and we are in a need to make some change. And so I kind of did an overall brand audit, as most marketers do when they start into you know, either a new project, new company, and just to kind of get a sense of, you know, what are the brand assets look like? You know, how do our customers view us? How do our what is the marketplace see us as? And that's, you know, kind of the view of brand. And I'm sure it's been said on the on this podcast multiple times, but brand, in my view, is how people perceive you. Right. It's what they think of you, how they see you, and it's not something that you can control, it's not something that you can forced, it's only something that you can influence right. And so that's something that that I knew we were going to need to do. We were need to step up game in pretty much every aspect, every component of our marketing, if we were going to be able to be recognized as a leader in our space. And so that's...

...kind of what we set out to do and the one of the very first things that I kind of undertook in this project was one I need to get the executive buy in right, and so I put a presentation together and met with a number of our different executives and kind of told this story of, you know, what is a brand and what is the impact of a brand and how does having a strong brand effect your marketing and your place in a marketplace? And then, you know, tried to get, you know, everybody on board in this idea of doing a kind of a complete three hundred and sixty degree rebrand. And and it's something that I'm not saying that every marketer company should rebrand when they have a say, a new marketing leader, and I think that's sometimes that that may be the case where a new Saycmo or new VP of marketing comes in and they look at in that like we need a rebrand, like that is not always the case, right. In this particular case, we didn't have a foundation to build on right. In fact, everything that we had was actually contrary to what I was trying to do anything. I was embarrassed to show people the stuff that we had, right, like our website are material, our sales materials, like everything we had, like I kind of felt embarrassed about it's the stuff that like you did when you were just like brand new in your career and then ten years, fifteen years pass and you look back and you're like that was cute, but man, that was a pretty bad which, we should add, is perfectly normal at early. So, yeah, happens all the time. Like this is time. This is not just an angle point story, this is like an everyone story. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and especially as you look over, you know, some of the most successful brands in the world, you see their evolution of their band, right, and their changes, and sometimes there are drastic rebrands, even the change of names, right, and then other times it's gradual and it's light and it's tweaks and it's improvements and optimizations here and there, and it just gradual over years. But like, it makes a big difference. But once I started getting this buy in from, you know, from the executive team and especially our CEO who had come in recently, Brian Pape, you know, really a visionary leader and he saw the benefit said yeah, let's invest in this, let's do this, and it was really nice to have. It was incredible just to have the executive support, the executive buying. But the next step, right, was we need to make sure that what we're going to put money behind, resources and time, we need to know that we're doing this right. And so we started a very indepth research project to understand, you know, the customer and understand the prospect and how people saw us, what people thought about us, our partners, and so we did some really primary research, secondary research, qualitative, quantitative, and we just jumped in really deep into our research project. And then when we wrap that up, it probably took about three or four months. As we were wrapping that up, we had some really great new insights in in what we know how we were going to build...

...the brand off of and kind of build the rebrand off of this kind of foundational insights and kind of this idea of like let's let's let the customer tell us, you know, how this should go. And as well as, of course, our employees and our partners and others, there's a lot of great feedback that we received and there's one particular I point out. There's one particular insight that was really interesting to me that stood out from a lot of the others, is like some pretty frequent feedback that we were getting and some kind of resounding, like I can't ignore it, type of feedback. Was We love working with angle point because you feel like real, authentic, genuine people and it's we don't feel like some cog in some sort of machine where, you know, we're just kind of a price tag to like we feel like it's actual partnership, right, we feel like you're part of our team and you're easy to work with and we like you write like you're human beings and we like to do business with you. But also there's a big piece that like we mentor and we teach and we share and like we want you to understand, like what we're doing and why we're doing it, so that they can be on board and so that they can learn and develop over time too and over the course of our engagements and that insight. That's something that we really wanted to focus on, and so we looked and like, this is one of our kind of the core things that you'll hear at angle point is a number at six point five, and what that means is, on a spectrum of one to ten, one being like surfer shirt and flop flops in a board meeting to you know, ultra robot, you know, Stodgy, business professional, but that nobody wants to work with, like nobody's inviting that guy to hang out after work. Like on this spectrum, we want to be not just right in the middle, we want a little be little bit more on the professional technical side, because, I mean, we're working with some of the largest, biggest brands in the world and they need to know and be able to trust that we are going to go get it done. From that they're going to see us and perceive us as the company that they can trust with their brand, with their money, but also that they're going to want to work with right that they want to hang around with. So we want to be the technical, you know, experts that everybody turns to for advice, but we also want to be the guy that everybody, you know, invites to their party. So, like it's a balance right there that we wanted to focus on and that was one of the core components that we wanted to put into place into all of our our brand positioning, our messaging, into the look, the feel, like everything about the brand was kind of along this idea of six point five, but including all of the the other insights we took from that research. Now, the six point five, did that come out of your quantity tative analysis, or is that how you described where you wanted to fall on that based on all the other qualitative data? You know, it's a that's a great question and it's actually kind of a mix right. One of the things that we like to do is we like to turn qualitative data into quantitative data. So like, for...

...example, we'll take will create a survey. Well, we'll create an interview list and then the interview questions will turn into a survey and then, as we're talking interviewing people in a very qualitative way and digging deep into these follow up questions, will fill out the survey based on the interview questions and then we'll look for some you know, statistical trends and, you know, looking for any insights there. But it really was a mix between qualitative and quantitative data. One, and part of the reason I ask is six point five is so specific and I love it because it's not hey, we want to six out of ten or we want to seven out of ten, like you're making a statement when you share that with your entire team. Okay, we're a six point five where at this exact sweet spot and that's who we are, and you making a statement that everyone has to get on board with, be a five out of ten, I'm sure, I guess everybody wants to be a five out of ten. Right. Fit's right in the middle. Everyone's kind of happy, thanks a kind of professional. I love that. Just like pushing that edge a little bit past the six, not quite the seven. It really says something about how thoughtful you all were in that process. Yeah, I appreciate that and I not are not a ton of people who can respect it that. I feel like the way that you can recks and or maybe maybe other marketers, but it is something that from day one, right, that is part of the message that we share with new employees. It's part of our brand guide. It's like the core of our brand guide, right, and it pretty much guides almost everything that we do. Yeah, it's wonderful. I mean you can carry that through to the way that you train customer success people and people on the sales side, everyone in marketing, I mean everyone, can get along with the six point five idea right of being approachable professional like that. That's great. Now, you had to think about this in more than just who are you portraying yourself to be as a company? What were some of the other considerations? Obviously there's the visual elements, so I imagined there were some stylistic rebrand what were some of those things? Yeah, I mean I, especially coming from film background, I feel like I kind of have an eye for you, a esthetics something and what looks good, but I am not a professional designer. I will be the first to tell you this. I get by and I can actually, you know, I can build a pretty good website, I can design sales materials, I can, you know, kind of hold my own when it comes to the Dobe suite. But I knew that if we were really going to take this to the next level like we needed to, we're going to do it right, I was going to need to bring in some pros, you know, some professional talent, and so we outsourced to an agency, a design agency, who really helped us. We had the core concepts of what we wanted to do. There's part of our branding process and something that I've done with multiple companies that I've worked with and also are for, and also clients that I've worked with, is it's one of my favorite things to do. It's pretty fun. There's a deck of cards. It's called brand deck and you can look it up. It's think it's just like brand deckcom or something like that. But there's a deck of cards and there are...

...are four categories and it's on these four category cards it's who you are, who you're not, like your torn on something and then like doesn't apply. So you put these four category cards the top and then you have this big deck of cards that just has adjectives, right, and then you take these adjectives and you put them in these different categories, the ones that you that don't apply. You kind of just push them off to the side. The ones that you are tell a story just as well as as the adjectives of who you're not, right, and so then you really focus on after you get like this big, long list of these adjectives, then you whittle it down to ten and then you whittle it down to five, so you get five in each category. You got a couple that you're torn on because you just can't decide right like what you're going to do with these ones. And then you talk about it as a team. Right. This is and this is why it's so important to bringing a lot of people to the table for this particular exercise, especially bringing in some executives and leadership, because everybody you want to get, you want to get everybody on the same page. You want everybody to feel like their body and that they're invested in part of landing where they land. And so you end up with five adjectives in the who you are and who you're not, and then you define it. You talk about what does that mean right? What does it mean to you individually to be approachable, or what does it mean? What does professional mean in your mind? What is like world class mean to you and, like all of us can think like Oh, it's a no brainer, like that's easy, it's like selfexplanatory, but like to each of us individually we may define it just a little bit differently. And then you talk to each person about what that means and how do you represent that, how do you talk about that, how do you write like that? And as you do that, you build out the story more and kind of put flash on the bones, right. So that's kind of one of the main things that we did to begin with as and that that helped us to kind of get to the six point five idea and all of the different kind of brand attributes that are what make up six point five to two angle point and this idea of you know what those attributes make to any company. And correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like to get that executive buy in at the stage where they were actually helping you craft the the vision, you had to start with what you described and your you know, you teach at the college level, so I'm sure this helps, but you had to really teach them like why does this matter at all? Why do you put the time that you're going to spend with us in the marketing team above the time you're going to spend on CEO work, on Coo work or whoever else you're involved in that process, because they've got other things to do. Their job is not to be, you know, writing alongside you and marketing all daylong. That's why they hire you, but they've got to get by and I really appreciate that. Is that how you did it? Did it start with that? Tell them the story, get them bought into the concept. Now their bottom they know they need to commit the time to it. Yeah, absolutely, and to make sure that they were involved right as you're going to put a lot more time and resources into some of these big passion projects or big campaigns. You're going to...

...be asking for money and you know you're going to need to get that support. And if they're not bought in, if they feel like you're going in the wrong direction, they're going to be hesitant all the time. Right and there. They may even be questioning and you just you cannot have that environment where your leadership, your executives are either questioning or don't trust or don't feel comfortable. It's just a really hard place to work. It's really hard to make progress when you're in that type of environment. I want to call out one thing for the marketers listening to this episode. Dave garrehard talks a lot about like hey, and he's a very famous marketer, so his words are going to you know, they're going to be known. But, Hey, don't work for a CEO who doesn't understand marketing. There's also that flip side, like don't hire a marketer who can't explain marketing to a CEO. Absolutely, like don't bring on a marketing leader who can't get people on board with her his message. You've got to you've got to be able to do some of this, not managing up, but really educating to the rest of the team. And there's this feeling that, like, I think some marketers fall into this pitfall of thinking that a CEO just knows or just understands and it's like, Oh, I want to do you know, I'm want to focus in on search engine optimization, or I want to do these particular events or I want to, you know, really put some more money down into our account base marketing program you can't just assume that they know what that means and that they know exactly what the benefits are and how it's going to work. Right. They may have like some good ideas and some, you know, some sort of sense of how that's beneficial, but one of the things I found is how important it is to help executive and just actually everyone in the company to understand what you're doing and why you're doing it right, because there's just there are a lot of people who just until they understand it, they just can't get behind it, they can't trust it. And as much as everyone would love just to work an environment where everybody just trusts everybody to do their job, that's not like case, right. And so you you're going to have people throughout your organization who just inherently, not for any like type of personal qualms or any type of, you know, beef that they might have with you, but they just like won't trust you to do your job until they understand, you know, what it is that you're doing and why you're doing it. That's just the kind of the type of people that they might be your it's not like not everybody's that way. Right. And again, ideally you can work with people who just say hey, this is your job and I trust you to be good at it. I go kill it, right, but especially when those people hold the money and those the people who are going really helping or impacting the control of how all your marketing program evolves. Like, they have to understand and you have to help get them invested into it, right, and I think that that's one of the great things, or one of the greatest needs for a marketing leader to understand, is the importance of education and being able to sell ideas right, to pitch...

...ideas. So I absolutely agree that it's wonderful to work with company leadership, CEOS whatever, who understand marketing. But if they don't, it's your job, right, your job to help them understand it, because they've got to learn somewhere, and if you don't teach them, who's going to teach them? Right? Yeah, the poor sucker who follows you is going to have to deal with it, right. Yeah, something. Yeah, and once they understand they could be incredible to work with. Yeah, you just got to help them understand. Now, I love that. I'm glad you brought that up. Dug in deep there. Now let's assume we've gotten through what is the entirety of a rebrand, which can be a very amorphous thing. But did you roll this out as like an ongoing process? Hey, we're going to change the logo, then we're going to change the assets, or was this like a big bang scenario where hey, on September one, everything changes? You know, how was that roll out for you guys? Yeah, that's a great question, and it kind of was in this instance, like it was a bit of like kind of everything changes, because in this instance it was such like a burn everything to the ground and build it start over. When it comes to to the brand, the only thing we didn't change was the name, right, and actually I'm super od we stayed with the name. It's an interesting name. But like, when you look at like, for example, at an event list, we're always at the top, nice with with the a name starting at the beginning, and that actually helps because a lot of times at events people don't scroll through all of the vendors right. They open up a page and they see you're like right there at the top and then they don't even scroll right like great, yeah, they saw our brand right anyhow. So for in this particular instance, it definitely was kind of a rip and replace type scenario where we, you know, created all of the assets prepared everything and then on that day, on that kind of release day, that push day, when we went live, like everything kind of switched on and off and and we moved with with the new brand. But in other circumstances where brands like you definitely can be a little bit more gradual with things, yeah, where you start with certain assets and you like you start on the website, you start on sales materials to start on, especially in B tob space like ours, where it's, you know, technical services, you know, deliverable decks, powerpoint presentations, you know, those are the types of things that in some instances could be gradual, but for us it was just light switch on off. It's kind of exciting, though. It's almost you know, you got to rally everybody around the idea of a rebrand and now you get to get them all pumped up for the day of what was the general feedback, the reaction when you went live with it? Yeah, it was really great feedback, both from internally as well as externally. Internally, they knew beforehand, right. We did a lot of research internally to get some ideas and some feedback. We wanted people to feel invested, so we opened things up for people to share and it's easier to do when you're in a smaller organization. So that open things up to our employees to share some ideas and to share some thoughts on, you know, we're going to be working on a new logo and the ideas or any thoughts that people might have on how to, you know, capture...

...this particular essence, this particular idea of this brand positioning that we're trying to focus on here. So we kind of tell the story and the people share some ideas and then, like we went old school and we sketched. Man, we sketch booked right for you know, days, weeks, you know, looking at different sketches, and then we started fleshing them out a bit and then we ended up having, and we're talking, you know, design here, we're talking logos, but we had probably six different logo renditions that we ended up landing on, every one of them very different, and then we kind of whittled it down from there on what everybody wanted to get behind. Nice. Now last question before we zoom out from this particular effort. If you could do it all over again, if you had to walk back in angle point first day and he thought, okay, we're going to rebrand. Is there anything you would do differently? That is a great question. Throwing it back. Yeah, yeah, and I think that one of the main things that I would have done differently is I'd probably try and bring on another team member, much more full time. It was great working with, you know, some outsource support, but going through that type of project when you're the only marketer and a company like that's a heavy load, right. So the circumstance wasn't necessarily super ideal for me inhouse right as the kind of loan marketer at the time, but having an additional, even a part time resource would have been really helpful in that particular launch. So maybe some advice that on my chairs. If you're going to be doing like a full redesign, rip and replace Type Brand Projects, like have some extra support make sure that you're ready to carry that load. That's solid advice. I'm sure even part time would be beneficial. Now. Can assume me now from that effort in thinking about where angle point is at now, because that was before, right, you were the loan marketery and engage the agency. How big is the team now? Would have looked like from a marketing perspective, absolutely so. The company then, I want to say we were around thirty five employees or so. The company started in two thousand and nine. I joined in about I want it to say it was two thousand and fifteen, maybe two thousand and sixteen. Man Gets time, five time flies when it's Covid so about thirty, around thirty five or so employees when I started. Were now about two clips, about a hundred and fifty. So you know, we've grown pretty substantially, not necessarily compared to some of these other hyper growth large companies, but sure they're the exception, not the rule. Yeah, but yeah, I mean it was just me and then actually, funny thing. I'll just give a quick plug. This is a little bit of a secret that I like, one of my secrets for hiring really top quality talent at the entry level, new talent. Right. You had mentioned that I teach at the university level and it's like having a semester long interview. You get...

...to see like who are like the cream of the crop, students who have like really great potential and have who have those attributes that you want on your team when it comes to culture, when it comes to you know skill sets, are capabilities and just the people that are going to be right for your team and for the actual place you are in your company. You know at that point the people that are right for the bus right and that are going to help you take things to the next level. And so that little secret, is the secret to hiring the best entry level talent is teaching. If you're not teaching, go talk to teachers. It's funny because people are like grades don't matter, and as a teacher I actually kind of agree, like it's not necessarily the grade that matters, but teachers get to see, like, who are the students that are, even if they've got like a ton of stuff going on in their life and they're busy and they're getting like ce grades, they can tell who are going to make the best employees, right, yeah, the real thinkers, yeah, the people behind it. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now I've benefited from a little bit of the you know, I'm not a university teacher, but I've been able to mentor like early salespeople, early marketers, and that's that's another little way to tap into that talent pool of Hey, folks who are maybe starting their journey here, just giving them that advice, just being a friend. You can often either find a place for them somewhere that you know they're going to be served well, or you can find a place in house. But I love that idea of Hey, if you're teaching, you're finding that talent through just a semester long interview. I think it's a great way to describe it. Yeah, absolutely, so. That's a little bit of a tangent there. But going back, I hired actually two of my students nice and they were incredible. I didn't have the resources to bring in some really tenured, experienced talent to come in to join my team, but I was able to find, through teaching, some really great teammates and people that really were incredible to work with. One of them is still with me today, Braden Stringer, just such good people and so talented, and then Alex Benson, who she recently had a baby and she's doing the mom thing and doing some entrepreneurial stuff as well. So we miss her and are still you know, we still hang out and get lunch all the time. But started off just, you know, me hired two entry level positions here who are my students, and then kind of three of us for the next probably two and a half three years and for the marketing team, like it was a lot of work for three people to carry. But we really focused on the overall customer experience and, you know, trying to ensure that the perception, the brand perception that people are having, that experience that was consistent with, you know, with the brand that we were hoping that people would have. I think I'm kind of botch that up, but basically trying to make sure that what we were creating an experience that was consistent with a world class brand. Right.

And we started out and people were like, like I said, who's Angel Point? And now, over the last, you know, five and a half years, Gartner has just released their second magic quadrant. That is a specific to our space for soft asset manage mint managed services. Kind of a tongue twister, but pretty Sam Sam managed services, as we say for Sam Managed Services, where we were the highest and furthest to the right is the Gartner proved way of saying the uppermost, top leader. So we were in that position last year and in two thousand and twenty and then the two thousand and twenty one was just released and now we are even further up and further to the right and further distance from any of our competitors. And the position on the magic quadrant, if you look at it right now, you can go to angle pointcom forward slash mq to get an idea of what it looks like. But the visual is very representative of the market place right now. Like before we were whose angle point, and now it's you guys are angle point, like yeah, like we want to work with you guys. Right we are working with the world's top brands the the most complex challenges in our industry and we get to work on these difficult challenges, these difficult software environments, and minute is a blast. It is a lot of fun. But and it's so fulfilling to look at where we are to where we're at now and it really comes down not just a definitely like you have to have you can't just have a stellar brand and not have the product or service to back it up. Right. You won't get there if you don't have the quality product or service to back it up. But we really do have some of the world's top talent in our space and we were committed to ensuring that the brand was representative of that talent and it took a lot of investment, a lot of time, a lot of work, but we're at a point now where it's and it's paying off big time. Right. Here's an example. But you know, we're talking about specific campaigns, the gardener magic quadrant. I've heard some marketing professionals recently. I saw this some linkedin where they were talking about how bad of an idea it is to focus time and energy and money on companies like Gardner and to focus in other ways, and I'm like, man, like, that is like, I like, that is terrible advice because, like, we've really focused on analyst relations. In fact, we even brought in Alison Frederick, who used to work at Gardener, and brought her in to work with us as our head of analyst relations and she's been incredible to work with. But, for example, one of the big campaigns that we push last year in this year is focusing on the gardener magic quadrant, pushing that out building. You know, the Multi Platform Cross channel campaigns around the the gardener magic quadrant, getting a lot of support from the sales team, the customer success side, and it is it's paid off big time. Already we're getting, you know, really great meeting scheduled set up...

...a lot of multimillion dollar opportunities in the pipeline from this already, which we launched this campaign like a month ago. Our sales cycles pretty long, as is in our particular space. It's somewhere between sixty eight months sales cycle. But last year, for example, we had other seven figure deals that we closed specifically from the Gardener Magic quadrant campaigns that we ran last year, and I did a podcast with Dan Sanchez that I talked more about this on the BB growth podcast about really how to develop those relationships with analyst firms and how to, you know, pretty much position yourself and sell what you're doing to the analysts in such a way that they know you are, they know what you're doing, they know what your strengths are and they will then, you know, ends up when they're meeting with their customers and people asking them, Hey, who should I go talk to? Every month we get multiple really strong leads coming from Gardner just from their analysts saying hey, you should go check out angle point, and so there's death definitely a way to do it right and, of course, a way to do it wrong, but absolutely not a waste of time and energy if you're doing it right. Well, that's great. I mean that's stands out as a clear positive outcome from all the work your entire company Zoom, but also from the branding standpoint. That's wonderful. Now people are going to want to follow you, they're going to want to listen to episode of the BDB growth show. Good friends with the team over there. They're wonderful. It's going to be a great episode. Where else can they find you online if they want to follow you or learn from what you're doing? Yeah, absolutely, they can find me on Linkedin. Just Search Pete Larkin. I'm sure I'll come up and everyone will remember to search for angle point, not Angel Point. Now. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they'll be able to find you. Otherwise I'm not doing my job right. It's right. And if they want to find angle point online, where do they learn more about you your brand? Yeah, just angle pointcom perfect. Very nice. Well, Pete, we appreciate you being on the show. I'm sure the audience will love this one and we will have you on again one day. Hey, rex, it's been a pleasure, man. It's been great hanging with you. Thanks for listening to growth marketing camp. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you would give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to get a little more inspiration for their next campaign. If you want to learn more about the company behind the show, had to open sensecom. That's open se N S ECOM. Will catch you on the next episode.

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