Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 9 · 1 year ago

How to Take Smart Risks and Sell Big Ideas Up the Food Chain

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Jarrett Stanley runs marketing at Southern Trust Mortgage, easily one of the most innovative mortgage companies you’ll find. But it wasn’t always that way. Jarrett took calculated risks and pulled off big changes. In this episode he breaks down exactly how you can do the same! And if you yawned as soon as you heard “mortgage,” you’re in for a special treat. Jarrett explains how he turned mortgages from a line on a spreadsheet into a beautiful moment for their customers.

Welcome to growth marketing camp, where we sit down with our favorite marketers to de mystify growth and give you the insights to help turn your next campaign into a major success. Let's get into it. Okay, Campers, this is a special episode because this is the first episode where rex makes a huge mistake. Yeah, that's me, not because of anything Jarrett did. He's an awesome guest and you're going to love this episode, but I actually screwed up and did not have my higher quality microphone pluged in at the time, so you're going to hear me sounding little less than ideal and jared's going to sound amazing. So please do tune in. If you stay at the end, I got a little special surprise for you. Thanks for joining us. All right, welcome to this episode of Growth Marketing Camp. Were joined by Jared Stanley, the senior vice president of marketing at southern trust and mortgage. The jared is super excited to have you on the show and I know you've got a really unique take on a pretty commoditized space. So welcome. Thanks, X man. I was happy, delighted, surprise and all around just excited to be on the show when you invited me out. I've checked out some of the episodes see what you guys are doing. I love it, so happy to be here at and share my story in my take, awesome. So let's dig into your take in your background and where you come from, because I think this influence is everything that you're doing today. So a couple of things. I did my little social stocking research here. I would call you a multifaceted marketer. You came up through graphic design. I was noticing you've got some background in music, which is awesome as as I do it to see the guitar here behind me, like love music. That definitely plays a part in creative effort. But also notice you're into programming, so like you got certified with Lendacom in IOSAP development, for example. Talk to me a little about how all of that mixes into what you think of as marketing, how you execute today. It's funny, the diversity of what I've done sort of has come from a bit of necessity. So I think going back to where I started in marketing, it was more about actually the relationship that I had with my father, and it's an interesting backstory. I have a...

...really great relationship with my dad and you mentioned music. Music is always been a passionate life. I've been playing it since middle school. I just love playing music and for the longest time I wanted music to be my career. As you more likely know, or anybody who's tried their hand at music, it is very difficult to make a long term, sustainable career through music. That's why people, especially if you're trying to do it like in a band setting, most people end up splintering out into doing things like producing or into do things like sub tour support. But, as we've seen, it's a very rocky and tumultuous place to try to make a consistent living. I never wanted to do the traditional business route. My Dad owned his own mortgage brokerage and own his own life insurance brokerage, so I sort of grew up under the cubicle and when I wasn't doing creative work, I was always a checking out to see if he needed any help, and I have a really great relationship with my dad, so I wanted to do everything that I could to try to help him. So when I've sort of had a crossroads about what I wanted to do with my life after I graduated, High School, I decided I will still do music as much as I can, but I also want to pursue marketing. Marketing was something that I could still be creative in and help people like my father who did not speak the creative language at all. So it was somewhere that I could meet in the middle to one support my family in a sustainable way and support my dad, who I cared about deeply, and still be creative to where I didn't feel like I had a job that was something I didn't look forward to going to every day. So that's really the story and once I kind of dove into that, I just got all in because I realize that in the mortgage market space, this is after the owait crash, so I realized that everything still from that point on, from Fintech to just uiu x in the financial space, not just in mortgage but in the financial space, was awful. That's basically hadn't been touched by a lot of what was sort of emerging in other more progressive spaces. So I saw it as an opportunity to really take my best shot at trying to take experiences that I would want to have and build them out everywhere else. Now, that was difficult because I had to essentially started under broom clause, which is a laptop, not knowing how to do programming or not knowing how to build a website, not knowing how to shoot the video to host on the website. Like it was just lindacom again, online resources. You...

...could pretty much learn anything you want online now. So everything that I didn't learn in school I supplemented in real time experience, just trial and error, and it's all sort of culminated over the in the past fifteen years working in mortgages, to where you can build sustainable and impacting brands. You just have to know creatively how to tell that story, how to out an area. So it's been a wild ride for sure, but it's definitely not over yet and I'm excited about where we're at. Yeah, well, I'm going to ask the question that that maybe under cells all of what you just describe, but tell me about what the company doesn't burn right, let's just talk about your target audience and and what you offer. Okay, so southern trust mortgage. Obviously it's in the name of the company. It's some mortgage company. However, one of the things that southern trust does is it really we try to see what we sell as a vehicle. Like mortgages in themselves are not really the end of the means to the end, and it's a mentality that I tried to instill and everybody that we work with that nobody wakes up in the morning and says, you know, what I'd really love today is I'd really love a mortgage. That's not something that all the bad word, right. Yeah, I mean mortgages, insurance, all these type of things that are needed. They do have kind of a negative connotation to them because they're always associated with something bad. Like mortgage actually means life debt, like it's not something that is a pleasant thought. However, what it enables is the pleasant thought. So you have things like empty nesters finding a new home after their children leave to go off the college, people finding their first place as a new couple, people moving up in house when they want to have a baby, like all these things are centered around really highly emotional life events and it's our job to really try to help people streamline and focus on the happiness of what's happening because of the mortgage, not necessarily to say we want you to become a mortgage expert, so southern trust mortgage. We work with home buyers. We were people who are buying, refinance, investors, the gamut of people who need financial services. We also work with real estate agents in our area. Mortgage Lenders and real estate engines are like peas in a pod. There are two sides of the same coin. Builders, obviously we work with them. So I mean we work with a whole host of people to...

...provide different services, but ultimately, the end of the day, the goal is to provide home ownership to many people as possible. Yeah, I love that. I mean being able to hear the stories and they all resonate with all of us, right, we've all experienced at least one of those life events, either directly or indirectly. While seeing those things happen and they are very emotional. To be able to bring that into such a we say, commoditized but also just kind of like that negative kind of thation. Remove that and focus on the good, exciting. It's a great approach. It's also very challenging to run marketing to so many different audiences. So you're talking about yeah, at the end of the day, here's who we work for, but here's who we work at. There's a bunch of folks, and I know we're going to talk about the campaign where you are working with really with partners, certainly builders. So let's break into that and tell me who was the audience like relative to your partnership with them, and who were the partners that you were trying to target? What was this campaign all about? So the program that we ended up building we called our build, our partnership program it really is targeted towards a small to midtier level builder, somebody who isn't necessarily nationwide, and it's really meant to fill in the marketing gaps for folks who are really good at what they're good at but they do maybe not have the marketing support that some of these really large flagship companies may have out there. So we said we want to be the best partners that we possibly can. We don't want to be the lender that goes with the hand out to the partner that says hey, sir or Madam, can I please have a loan? You can you feed then bar wars. We want to be more than that. So for us we saw marketing as a place to fill that gap and provide value up front before a transaction occurs. And when you do that that really solidified relationships long term, because now you're doing something to move their bottom line as opposed to you just being a byproduct of something they need to cross the finish line in there. So we're actually working to sell more homes for the partner. Now the way that works is, as we were talking about it before we started, is we built out a kiosk system, so a tablet chiosis and that sits inside of the builders model home and it replaces the pen and paper traditional sign and so this does a couple things. This helps the agent get their weekend back so they don't have to go in...

...and try to decipher someone's handwriting. It gets more accurate information because you actually have to type it in. You're not actually having to try to read somebody's you know if they're not legible or not, and put it in a spreadsheet. It gives information transparency about who actually visited the home. Believe it or not, some of this data never makes it to the right end destination in a database. Now that we control the mechanism by which information is ingested, we can disperse it to any crm. We can disperse it to any Google doc anywhere we want, and it's just such a way to make sure that we can convert on the highest moment of intent for that buy or, like we were saying, it's you know, it's like opportunity costs, right, like most people work towards the weekends where they just want to relax. Okay, well, most people go househunting on the weekend. So they are omitting that time to relax and recharge to go do something that they deem is probably very likely in the future. So they're scouting if we know that their intent is very high. So we want to try to win the day through a great user experience before, during an after their process and by US playing that role with the builder. We've solidified so many relationships just by doing that. It's much better than trying to have a race to the bottom mentality with partnerships. Yes, that's fantastic. I want to ask a little bit deeper on the how you executed this. How did you get this into the hands of these part of builders? Was this one to one relationship already had? You have to go out and establishies, because it sounds like the exact right motion, that it's in the exact right timing for, you know, the end buyer who's considering purchasing at home. How did you actually get that done, because that's a big move for them to be willing to abandon a process that they were already doing for probably decades. I mean a lot of these builders been around for a long time. Getting rid of pen and paper might be uncomfortable. As much as you know, you pitch this as get your weekend backers. I think it's a brilliant line. But how did you get this into their hands? Yeah, so that's I mean. I like, like anything, of trying to convince somebody of an idea that's new versus an idea that they're comfortable with can always be difficult. So for us it really involved...

...not necessarily just letting the lone officer, who is our sales agent, but me personally, in my digital marketing manager who works in our department, getting in the car, taking a kiosk unit, getting an appointment through the lone officer and going and speaking with, often times of president of these companies and saying hey, listen, we want to talk and build your business. Here's an idea that we thought of that may help you. You can feel free to rejud back that, you can feel free to adopt it. It's not going to cost you hardly anything here. I think, even if we get rejected, that still does show the fact that none of these other lenders are coming in the door offering the ways of improving the business just because we wanted to. We had to put time and effort into creating the system that would work, a system that would work with all open Apis, a system that had turnkey automation tied to it, and also put it together all the documentation and presentations and agreements that goes with us. I mean it was on undertaking. However, I would say the majority of people, before we leave that meeting, ask if we have a unit in the car that we're willing to give them to put in their model. Right now, mortgages and many other professions like this, there's so many politics involved and you would get discussions about, well, what are the other lenders that are associated with my building community? You going to think like we would go up with against other competitors that are also fighting for the deals in those communities. It paints us to such a positive like Bec as everyone else was going in with that hand out mentality. You're going in with that hand up mentality, saying we care about you as a partner, let us help you build your business. So, to answer your question, I think the perception of the builder is incredibly important, just that you would take your time out to build something, not knowing if it was going to get adopted or not, simply for the fact that you want to do enhancer relationship and lots of times that's all the the open door that you really need. Yeah, well, that's incredible. There's definitely some takeaways from that. Love that. I imagine that you learn a lot from this experience that you're translating into next steps on new campaigns. But let's talk about the things you learn. If you can start over, you could say, Hey, let's do this all over again. Is it always have a kiosk in the trunk, like one of those things that you've picked up on are going to influence you if you did it again? It's a good question,...

I think. I would say to not try to make it perfect in your MVP. It's oftentimes, I think, is creatives or people who maybe have a little bit of a perfectionist mentality. It can be easy to not ship a product because you don't feel like it's done yet. We add all these ideas about how we wanted to build texting into the module. So, for instance, like when somebody signs in to the home, we would do it on a time delay and then within an hour they would get a quote text from the agent with a video attached to and everything. We were able to do that with emails, but we saw that texting had such a higher open rate and engagement rate and we could start to dialog with that person through that medium easier than responding through emails. We're still not there yet. There's a couple things that really have to be kind of ironed out and put into place, but there was a temptation for me as like I we have to have texting day one or this is going to work. Now, if I would have gone with that mentality, like we have over twenty kiosk installations with twenty different builders have been on these coast now, if I would have kept that mentality of it's got to have this, we would have zero relationships are that are built on the kiosk relationship. We would have none of those right now and I can always go back and say, roll out a patch that includes that and push it via mobile device management to this kiosk, and then it would still work. The point is that I know what I know, so I know what I wanted and I know it was possible. When you go talk to your audience, it's mainly about trying to empathize with what they know and their situation that they are in right now. Those folks were working with nothing. They were working with pain and paper. So the evolution of pen to paper to kiosk is like a five step jump. Yeah, and then you adding texting on it. That's like the sixth step. So if I would have just mentally been blocked by saying I can't sell this because the five steps beneath that aren't good enough in my mind, in their mind it was plenty good enough. So to taking myself out of the equation and focusing more on the audience's needs and goals. Like that's marketing one on one, but we oftentimes disregard it when we should be listening to it. Yeah, boy, that happens to all of us all the time, right, like we had stuck in our own perfectionism. I think especially for creatives. That's...

...really true. I imagine this is influence campaigns and other channels or other part of the relationships. What have you guys been maybe adopting differently or trying now that you've seen the successive the kiosking? So I think this definitely opened a lot of eyes in terms of context based marketing. So the there's a term of like account based marketing, so like you send marketing based upon a user behavior, that's see their store in the browser, cash or somewhere. That's you know, all you're trying to do is really send a more targeted message based upon somebody's implied intent. That's all you're really trying to do. So you can really take that mentality and put it everywhere. You can try to do that as much. Again, now it takes a little bit time to build out because you're going to try to think about all the potential scenarios and when you're serving multiple audiences that can become pretty staggering pretty quickly. However, we've done things like we all offer credit training for continuing education to our realtor partners. So because we are licensed to do that, that was one item that says okay, when somebody comes in actually to a class, why don't we have them sign in through one of our kiosk solutions and as an a tag or assign elite source of credit class and age a credit class and based on the fact that came to edue credit cross, I can send them material that's relevant to the experience that they just had. It's now sort of a game of scale and money. So if I can give that just to the teacher, I know that everywhere the teacher goes they can use this mechanism and just assign the lone officer that is host in the class, as opposed to giving every lone officer a tablet and having them select the class. So I get the ten to one just by doing it the inverse way. So now that you've sort of got the power, or of got the the launch pad, as it were, you just trying to figure out sort of which direction. So classes are definitely one that we're doing. So once covid nineteen, it's not going to become thing that passed. Once becomes managable and people emerge from their homes. For our partners, for real estate partners and things like open houses, this will be key. So again, we talked about. Anywhere there's pen and paper, this can potentially replace. Anywhere there's a sign and cheat, this could potentially replace. So agents who are hosting a open house one why does it the losser bring a tablet or a kiosk and sign in and have it cobranded that way? Once they leave there, they get...

...an email cobranded between that agent and that lone officer thanking them for coming in and they want to talk with them. I just think it's an open door to looking at where people are, looking at the high level of the tent and then really hammering home. I'm marketing message that is unique to what their actions were, and if you can do that then that beats cold forming all day long. Yeah, boy, there's so many there's so many gems in there. I think one that I want to call out is that, despite maybe an interest in technology, despite seeing that technology is an advantage, you didn't put technology in place here just for the sake of saying, Hey, we're more innovative. It was literally to solve a very specific problem, like, Hey, we don't have data that we should have or we're not serving people in a way that we could. We had that data. So then extending I. Okay, I don't get that data more easily, but then it's also the benefit of the person who's filling out that for it's more comfortable experience. Oh there's so many things that made technology the writings or but I think just for the audience listening and watching, remember that's not always the case, that technology does not have to be the solution. In this case it definitely was. So what a clear win for you guys. That's great. Tell me a little bit about the structure the marketing department there, because I'm fascinating to here. How did you pull something like this off? I mean there's hardware, software, there's relationships and one to one relationship. This is not like an email list to hit up and said, Hey, we love to put a kiosk. You know your next place. What's the team like that? What's the structure? So our team, the marketing team, ATS. So then trust. We operate like a small agency inside of a larger company. So we act like an agency that has one big client pretty much in that client has a lot of tentacles or branches. I run the team. We have eleven people on staff in marketing. So we have a graphic designers, photography, videographer. We're in the studio. I'm in a study right now. I used to do this role so I didn't have to call on our videographer to get set up. But, as you can see, like some of the stuff that we've been talking about, like investing in this because of you want to user experience. That a certain way, we have in house developers, like we have two developers, and house like we build our on websites, we build a manager on Mobile APPs, this Kia solution, this stuff was built in house. So it really does give us a...

...competitive advantage, even though it requires more sweat equity, as we sort of buy some things off the rack, as it were, for like critical development foundations. But because we have the development prowess in house, we're able to take sort of the ball of clay and mold it into something else that that we really want it to really want it to end up being. Like, for instance, our partners total expert. I'll give them a shout out. For Our CRM provider. They are the ones that are able to have an open API that ingests are formed our kiosk build out. So all we really had to do is figure out how to make the form modularized, how to get it to somewhere in it how to transport it into a couple different locations. So again, we're not building the CRM, but we have the know how, in the knowledge to take things that are sort of ACAC level and make them in a level which I think really helps us to stand out in a very commoditized space. All that being said, is you know, we've got a bunch of people in here who really have a passion and a goal to make home happen. That's our tagline, right. So we do that through marketing technology and it's really cool to be able to do probably ninety five percent of it in house with the team. It's amazing. I'm curious knowing that even just saying hey, we have a couple of developers in house on the Marketington, that's an incredible ask of senior management. So I'm curious. Was this kind of a part of southern trust before you came into was there like a DNA of innovation? Were they always looking for newsolations or did you bring this to the table? I know started as beef, you moved up into senior vice president. Was it's just always there, or you had to sell this internally. What have you learned? Yeah, I mean have to sell it internally. I think you'll there's always an element of continually selling yourself internally, especially when the path forward isn't always, you know, crystal clear. It can be very difficult to ask people to trust you and I think things were a little bit slower moving up front. Like when I go to the owner of the company and say, Henny, you know thirty fivezerolls of by camera equipment, when they've never shot a video in their entire life, it can be a little bit difficult to get a Yes. So, for instance, with this gear, I had a bunch of it myself. I came in, I shot a guerrilla style and I shot it as much as I possibly could with the gear that I had and then, low and behold, US our turning out videos, and then I use that sort of as a proof of concept. Yep, it gets back into the idea that you asked me at the beginning of the interview. Why did you learn to do...

...so many things? And the reason I learned to do so many things is so that I could prove that it can be done and then when people that have the money see that it can be done. They poured gasoline on the fire. So lots of times that's how you can kind of get around these initial knows. A lot of times you get around inials because I haven't seen it like, for instance, the builder kiosks. If I go to these builder kiosks meetings and don't bring a kiosk and I just show them a power point of a picture of it, it's esstantially less powerful than if I actually walked them through on the tablet itself and they see it with their own eyes. Sort of the same idea. So, when it comes to pitching, what southern trust was in two thousand and sixteen versus what it is today? Yeah, none of this stuff existed. All of our website stuff was outsource. We had no developers and staff. But we quickly realize that who we wanted to become required more than what we could effectively contract. In a way that was like we're we were being penny smart and dollar stupid. So let's be let's take a leap here. Let's put some efforts in this, really do a really well rounded project doc and get this stuff done in house and if it fails, we can always pivot back to what we were, but it just you have to take a little bit of risk to be greater than you're already army. That's IT, right. You like you're comfortable where you are, going somewhere new and being something better as always uncomfortable. I'm just glad that we've got folks in southern trust who see the vision and see what this company wants to be and aren't afraid to take chances. So a group like US thrives in the environment. Yeah, it seems like the perfect combination of you're willing to run an MVP right, show that this is a thing that can and should be done, they're willing to trust you to take it on and kind of that third step, you're willing to take on the risk that if it fails like that's kind of your head. Like you've said, this is where I'm placing my chips. I'm willing to bet on this thing because if it goes poorly, sure the company can recover. Doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be along for that ride. Right. There's an inherent risk in doing risky things for you individually, not just for the brand. I love that. I mean that's such a good lesson to all of us. Do the work, prove that it can be done and highlight that it should be done. Give more than just the concept, because that is definitely where the vision fails. If you're a creative person and you're selling this up, really hard to sell up something that's just talking points, right. So I love...

...you've done these mvts, that you've been willing to go through that extra hard work. Think that does make all the difference here, and obviously he was willing to buy in. It's not just that you're a really good salesperson, which I imagine that you are, but it's also they wanted this. They wanted to see this come to fruition, so they believed in you into the gamble. It's great. Yeah, and I would say also the you know, for leaders out there who are leading people, like I have people who lead me, I lead people in my group. But I think a key aspect of that is encouraging an environment of where it's okay to fail. I don't like the idea that if somebody comes me in hat they have a great idea, that I stifle them from giving me or this company any great idea because their first idea didn't work. I love the mentality that somebody cares enough to not be a clock puncher that just comes in and says, I want to build something great. Here's what it is. That mentality is what breeds success. You're not always going to be ten for ten, hitting home runs every single time, like there was a couple times in some things, like in development, that we've fallen on our faces. There's been a couple things that just haven't worked. But you know, probably eight out of ten things work really well and they move the needle. But if people were scared to submit ideas because they were scared to fail, because leadership basically says it's like we can't be blamed for anything that goes wrong, it's your fault, no one's going to submit an idea because they just don't want their responsibility. So if you're in leadership, just being courage to take chances, and I think it's more important that the mentality of growth exceeds the mentality of fear. But that's a good one. That's a great line. So I guess now turning this to the broader audience and thinking about growth marketing, what are some things that you see growth marketers out there, people who are trying to build success or trying to grow. What do you see M maybe doing they should stop, or things that they're not yet doing that they should consider doing now? So things that growth marketers should do that they should stop. Actually is the opposite of my playbook and it's something that I've had to learn as I grow in my career, and that's trying to do everything yourself. I had to for a long time, and the reason why I had to was because I...

...was just in an industry that didn't understand what we were doing for a very long time. So it wasn't that I couldn't hire anybody to do it, it was just that people didn't believe that it was even necessary. At the time, everything was just dollars and sense. You get your mortgage. It's not a dog and pony show, it's not an emotional connection, it's a byline on a spreadsheet and that's it. So who cares about marketing? We would rather take the money and keep that as a part of our P nol then invest in making that to that is completely changed. But it changed because you could sort of see the writing on the wall that it was evolving into that type of sphere. For me, I've had a sort of unlearned that behavior, and the reason why I've had to unlearned it is because now, when things start to succeed, they start to outgrow you, and when they start to outgrow you, it can become very difficult to let go of the fine toothcomb level of control that you've had over every single aspect and trusting people to come in and and be as passionate as you to execute on their part of what you're building together. It can take some getting used to because you just been doing used to doing it all yourself, but that is the thing that I've been learning over the past few years and it's amazing. The more that I sort of let go of the reins of that and just sort of be the guard rails for people, the product ends of being so much better because I'm not burned out, I'm not stressed out and I can play the role that I need to play and help people do what they're great at and just enable people like the more you grow, the more you need to enable from the top and and not necessarily be the person executing every single day. So that's been something I've been working on. And then you said what people should be doing. Yeah, again, something that I didn't do for a very long time is probably just picking your head up and looking around. A lot of times we're so convinced and in the vortex or Echo Chamber of our own ideas being the right ones that maybe we aren't right, and sometimes you get that just by the exposure to what other people are doing in your market place as well as a lot of reasons why the marketing evolution here at Southern Trust worked was because we looked at places outside of marketing and we looked at places where, what is this a standard customer experience that you get every day...

...that is now sort of becoming benchmark. So don't try to do things, don't try to evolve into something that's under benchmark or don't try to strive for something that isn't as good as what you're already getting. If that takes taking all the pieces, all the chess pieces, off the board and trying to actually put them back in the right place, then that's probably a better use of your time. But try to build something that is more in line with what the future looks like than what the present looks like, because by the time you execute on the president, it will become the past. You need to start looking towards the way people will behave in the future and if you do that, then you become the trend setter. You don't become the follower, and that can be very difficult because as if you don't look around and try to think what's next, it becomes you're always behind. So having that mentality of looking forward and trying to develop the future. Again, going back to permission to fail. The future doesn't exist yet. So developing the things that aren't necessarily real or have an element of risk to them, have that mentality of it's okay to fail, because when you win, you'll win big and when you lose, you lose small. I love it, love it. Yeah, that's totally resonates with me. Well, you know, I'm appreciate you coming on the show. I guess the last question here is who are the marketers who you look up to? Maybe in looking around at the market place, outside even of mortgages, right forse markets, you look up to maybe doing something interesting or exciting that you know that we obviously should invite on the show, but the people should be following. Yeah, absolutely, and some folks in the industry that I just got to give a shout out to you that are my colleagues and people that I really look up to and admire, and we we're in different companies, but we bounce ideas all the time off of each other, people like Mel Marsh at Catherine Campbell, sue warded, chief customer officer at total expert, my friend Trey Rigdon, who runs marketing for windom capital mortgage tray and I started in the marketing industry, but way back when we were both in broom closets and now we're both running respective companies, which is really cool. Jake failing at movement mortgage. These guys are awesome. So there's some really great people doing some amazing things in our space and they are worth your attention if you would like to look at them, and also do some great marketing minds that I really enjoy. Two of them, that actually three of them, to come to mind is Simon...

Seneka. One of his book start with why as one of my favorite books in terms of just getting the mindset right. Jocko willing, extreme ownership, fantastic book. Stories from a Navy Seals in Ramadi I'm amazing book on being able to have fast, twitch yet calculated leadership decisions. That's a great book. I will be wise to be read and Jay bear book called Talk Triggers. Amazing book talks about like one given example. One of the things that we've done traditionally in the mortgage industry is a closing basket, so like a closing gift. Right, it's thirty five to fifty dollars, it's got some wine in it, it's got a logo on it, it's got some stuff. Right. That's not a talk trigger, that's just a gift. It's like a gift card. So it's some things that, like my team, are working on. Is, again, context finding out the why behind somebody story, of why they're getting a mortgage in the first place, and doing our best to contextually give to them or give to them in a way that that solves a pain point or a problem that is able to be talked about and then giving them an avenue to talk about it in a way that's measurable and quantifiable. So those are the type of things that are talked about. Doing everything as a part of your customer journey on purpose talk triggers is a a great book to read. So all those folks right there, you would do yourself a very great service to to Google them and check them out. Okay, I love it. Okay, Campers, if you've made it this far, you deserve a treat. So either connect with me on Linkedin and mention this little Easter egg, or shoot me an email at growth marketing camp at open sensecom with Easter egg in the subject line, and I will shoot you back a starbucks gift card. You know, put money on it. Thanks, jared. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for sharing what you've learned, how you've grown. I know there's a ton of lessons in there for ourselves. The number one reason that I wanted to create growth marketing camp was for my own benefit. I'm, on a longtime sales guy breaking into marketing over the last couple of companies that have been a part of, and I love to hear outside perspective. Like what you're doing in the mortgage industry doesn't obviously tie to what we're doing in the soctware industry, but man are there's some lessons that I just grabbed out of what you were sharing. I...

...think you know that's kind of picking our head up and looking around and learning from others. There's some opportunity here. So thank you for joining us on the show. Very valuable perspectives here and if people want to follow you learn more about you and about your company, worship they go. So you can find my company, southern Trustcom. We have any to talk with you, you can find me on linkedin under jared Stanley. We have to start a conversation with you, dare, as well as, you know, the usual suspect places. I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram, so just Google Jared Stanley or searched your sailing you'll find me. Yeah, rex, thanks for having me on the program I really appreciate it. It was a great speaking with you and I love the show. Thanks and keep it up. Thanks for listening to growth marketing camp. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you would give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to get a little more inspiration for their next campaign. If you want to learn more about the company behind the show, had to open sensecom. That's open sky and skycom will catch you on the next episode.

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