Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 38 · 9 months ago

Loopio’s Secret Sauce for Success Through Simplicity And Video

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you ever wondered how a one product company is doing product marketing, you’re in for a treat. In this episode of Growth Marketing Camp, we are joined by Alison (Grenkie) Hayter, Director of Product Marketing at Loopio. She shares insights on the importance of collaboration with sales when launching a new campaign, how to nail down the messaging, and how sometimes, the simplest ideas are the best ones. Dig in!

Welcome to growth marketing camp, or we sit down with our favorite marketers to domestify growth and give you the insights to help turn your next campaign into a major success. Let's get into it. Hello, Hello, Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us today on growth marketing camp. I am your host, Bobby Murrangue. I am joined today by Alison Hater from Lubio. Alison, welcome to the PODCAST. Thank you so much for having me. So happy you could join us today. Alison spent the better part of the last decade working in product marketing roles within the BDB SASS base and is now director of product marketing at Lubio. Alice, think you tell us a little bit about Lubio and what problems you're solving in the market place for your customers today? Yeah, hundred percent. So Lubyo we sell our team response management software. We sometimes joke that it's not the sexiest of problems, but it is a problem that's really felt by our audience, which for me as a product marketer, that product market fit is really, really exciting, and we essentially, you know, we help companies respond to our IFP's other types of questionnaires just more efficiently and more effectively so that they can submit better quality for a fees and then, ultimately, when we're business as a result, and who just do that by making the response process a lot less painful for everyone involved. For those people who have been involved in our favorites longs process before, it's not always a most joyful of experiences. Oh, I've seen my fair share of ninety question excel spreadsheets, so totally understand what you're describing. there. May Ask, has the need for streamlining that process increased with the advent of clouds as solutions? I mean our P's obviously been around since software has been sold, but I mean do you see the market growing as a result of just more cloud solutions available in the market for purchase? You know? So it's interesting that you say that security questionnaires specifically, that is the case. You know, we there are all types of different questionnaires, as I was just saying, that that we help votes respond to, and there's a heck of a lot of security concerns that come with, you know, delivering those types and services online, you know, all cloud based, and so yes, on a recurrent basis, people need to complete security questionnaires to mention of their their vendors are all up to snuff. So growing, growing area. Awesome, awesome. We'll that's a good place to be then. Before we get a little bit into your role today, I wanted to ask you a little about your background because, from what I understand, your background isn't writing. And obviously, now that skill set has translated into, you know, nearly decade long career in marketing, how would you sort of describe the skills that make you a great writer translating to those which make you a great marketer as well? What's the connection there? Yeah, I mean I have always considered writing to be a pretty essential business skill for almost...

...anyone who wants to succeed in sort of this, you know, knowledge worker culture, right where we're slacking each other, constantly emailing each other, you know, let alone trying to write a blog post or a good old fashioned white paper or what happens. So I think that writing is sometimes seen as as a very specific type of a skill, but in truth, you know, when when people say like to sell is human, to write as even more human, and so so absolutely I think that being able to distill a specific thought or an argument, a message into something that is memorable and concise is incredibly important for anyone who wants to suceed, not just in marketing but but in business as a whole. Yeah, I think what I see a lot is just the need for for being as succinct as possible. Just for me, oftentimes, when I'm writing saying email related to business, I'll do it once over. We're I'll eliminate any words that are just not necessary or redundant, and I feel like that is a way to kind of make sure that you're being consistent communicatives, sinct and to the point, and that's definitely something that I think is incredibly valuable. Do you find yourself opening up a Google doc and jotting down sort of an ideal or as a part of your process? I mean, how much in depth do you go into when you're sort of originating an idea or strategy or perhaps a new effort internally? I mean, do you find yourself sort of exploring that deeply with writing or maybe you can tell me a little about your process though. Yeah, I guess it's an interesting question. I think that people explore ideas and all kinds of different ways. Some people like to talk through their ideas with others. People like to write through them. I absolutely agree with your point that you know you you write a whole bunch and then you cut back as much as you possibly can. But I probably I write all day long. I'm going to get carcoal tunnel center, but I'm fat Suork. I am right throughout all my meetingings. The fact that my hands are not on my keyboard right now isn't it? Not only because it is, it's how I process information and you know, take a look at it afterward and say, okay, but this is a couple the key points that came out of this meeting. And the GOP to notetaker. Unfortunately, it's a person, guess, Yep, not helping your carpal tunnel. I'm yeah, that's really interesting, and it's interesting because I think about I have a friend who works at Amazon and they talk about how that anytime there's a new initiative being discussed, there's no sort of presentations given. It's literally people will be responsible writing a paper, and the purpose behind that is that you have the most well formed thoughts and ability to kind of communicate ideas that are fully formed, versus just sort of waiting your decisionmaking towards people who can give the best presentation. So it is interesting and certainly something that I know that personally could do a better job of spend time sort of really being more deliberate with my writing and sort of really hashing out ideas versus some of the half big things that I come up with, including this sort of this thought that I have right now. Okay, let's...

...talk a little bit about Lubyo and specifically the product marketing function within Lubo. I'm still orienting myself around the roles within marking organizations and how they're all sort of interrelated. Can you told me a little bit about the product marketing function at Lubyo and then perhaps contextualize it relative to some of your marketing colleagues, like how you're supporting them or how your efforts are sort of lend themselves to execution for the Marketing Organization at large? Yeah, for sure, I think so. I will say I've think you mentioned if the big thing of our conversation. I've been doing product marketing for just about a decade now, which is a long, long time in product marketing land. I think that product marketing just as a discipline has continued to evolve. Different people have different ideas of what it is and frankly, I think it's really hard to nail down because product marketing is very different at different organizations, and I think it can be and should be in some ways. But it does mean that product markets kind of sign up for a process and almost every organization they dote to you of trying to educate the the people around them. Ye have unique value that they can provide with a new organization. Especially challenging if you're a first product marketing higher, which I have been passed, but Lubyo had a pretty great product marketing function when I joined, which was nice too. So we have some great people around us, which really really helps as a product marketer. We have an amazing product management team that we collaborate with a lot to bring features to market. Would be was actually a one product company, which which makes my job a little bit different and interesting as well, from a company that you know would have multiple products or releasing new products as on a regular basis. But we get to collaborate pretty often as well with our other marketing counterparts. So we have product marketing is kind of a subdepartment or discipline like then our marketing team. Then we have our branded communications team. They're focused on our content strategy, are here, social all that good stuff, and then we have our demand generation team that's more focused on, you know, the paint piece, the campaigns. Okay, and I'll that. And so I get to work with all of them and my team gets to work with all of them quite closely on on different types of initiatives. Certainly from a content strategy perspective, we're always trying to help figure out with that team the best, most impactful stories that we can be telling to the market, you know, different opportunities to educate the market in different areas. And then on the demand Gin side, you know what's going to be that that really pity paid ad. That's gonna going to really hit home for a key persona. You mentioned something there that I'm really curious about, kit can you tell me a little bit about sort of how the function varies if you're a single product company versus a multiproduct company? Have a few ideas as to how, but maybe you can describe that a little bit in some depth there, because I think it's a really interesting guy you. Yeah, well, I mean you get to be very focused in some ways when you have one product, which...

...is great. I've worked at companies where you know you've got forty plus products and yeah, and maybe certainly not forty plus product markers, that's for sure. Sure, sure. So you get to be pretty laser focused and get to go a little bit deep on the the actual product knowledge side, which is really exciting if you're that kind of person who finds it excited, which men do. But it does mean that you're also, for the most part, less likely to be introducing brand new audiences based on a specific type of or release that you're working on. You're probably going to be less likely to introduce brand new value props. So all that means is that you do get to go really deep with with your existing audience, get to go really deep with your existing value props. As a product marketer, I've you know, other product markers probably know, you can sometimes be very scattered. There can be so much different stuff happening and yeah, on. So that level of focus at a one product company is, it's, frankly, really exciting. Absolutely, and I imagine you know, you mentioned your audience a couple times there. I imagine there's a level of intimate knowledge, I guess, about your audience to some extent. Can you tell us a little bit about who they are and what you've learned about them and your time it would be out so far? Yeah, so I think one of the we have a couple different different audiences. I would say, you know, working on urfp's is definitely something that sales teams can find themselves involved in. Sales Engineer in folks, sales operations folks. So certainly there there are a lot of sales teams that can become part of our target audience as a result. But those books tend to deal with with those problems, you know, like they're receiving an RFP once a month, once once every other month, in a different kind of world. You know, if your companies very focused on RFP's, you probably have someone called a proposal manager who is is day and and day out. That is what they're doing, and so that person, you know, feels those pains associated with the RP response process on a daily basis. And so they they are a very unique audience as a result, proposal managers. So let's talk a little bit about them. How are you finding them? I know that you know one key sort of tenant in marketing is meeting, your meeting your market. Where they are? Where is your audience? Where is your market? Are they coming to trade shows? What are some of the the sort of primary ways that you're connecting with the people that are buying Loupyo? One of the the ways that proposed managers and sales folks are very different is, you know, sales. Sales folks are pretty familiar with the buying cycle, the buying process. Not only are they on the other side of it very often they are also pretty used to having a full text stack right at their disposal. So they're those stranger to to that process of procuring an you usual proposal enagors to sort of sort of unique, sort of very, very different, to be honest. Sure I in that they don't really have very many tools. They're quite comfortable with Microsoft Excel and share point and and the pretty standard text ac that would be shared across the entire organization.

So often times on when we're chatting with those people, it's actually their very first time purchasing any type of a tool, let alone just start to saying our specific type of tool. So there's there's a lot of unique challenges and opportunities they come about as a result, and honestly, I think that that's it's a really important question for everyone to ask when they're looking at their target audience. Is You know, how familiar is this person with a buying process, with a buying cycle? Have they advocated internally for a tool in the past? Because if they haven't, you're maybe not just educating them on your product, you're actually educating them on how to build consensus and sell a tool up and internally to their other colleagues. It's so interesting because that type of trading, I feel like, would typically in the BBS aspased be reserved fear enterprise sales reps. but it sounds like a huge part of your content strategy potentially is ensuring that your internal champions are equipped to be able to make that sale internally, which I think is so important, like in the context of enterprise, is ensuring that your champions can not just love your product but be effective shepherds of the product internally. And so I guess along those lines. You know, I noticed, you know obviously Lubicon. I've noticed you have the academy. There's the community aspect as well. That I've seen on your website. I mean, are these all sort of assets in this approach of really sort of enabling your internal champions, or are there other specific things that you can maybe point to that you've done that have been effective in sort of building this community of champions who are also effective internal sellers? Yeah, so, I mean it said the Lubicon is our annual user conference that we do, and a digital the last couple of years, of course, but it's absolutely one way that we would do bring our community together, that we try to enable them with the types of tips and tricks to use their software once they already have it in their hands. That being said, then you know, that community that we're offering those people that are are already our customers, were kind of taking a different approach. Often so if with prospects, okay, that haven't yet kind of come to the table and started to use the the software themselves. But absolutely, you know, engaging and building that community and being sort of that you know, that is our grand play and in some ways cool. It's being that that company that is providing those people with a space to have conversations about their challenges. Proposal managers are not necessarily a, you know, commonly talked about target audience. As they said, they don't they don't buy very many tools. We're kind of it for them. So they have a couple really key associations, but we're really excited to be, you know, pushing that profession forward and giving them a voice and giving...

...them the data to be able to have, you know, conversations internally about the types of hand sources they need to do their joll effectively. So we publish this. We publish a benchmark and Trans report every year as well. We're oh cool get them those types of insights into you know, what are typical win rates within your particular industry? You know it's yours is higher. You should be getting a paddle the back at a raise. A HUS is lower. You know, maybe there are some areas that you could be looking into. So we definitely consider ourselves an advocate for the market in the space. Advocacy was the word that came to mind when you describe that, and so just speaks to just sort of like a deep understanding of, you know, who this buyer is, what their rule is typically in the company, traditionally, how they're viewed within a company and potentially how Lubo, as a partner, can help them not just sell the product internally, but how you can help them sort of move the spotlight or recognition in a more positive direction, which I think is again just a really interesting problem to have to solve when you're selling to someone who doesn't typically buy, but you're now enabling them with the information they need to be able to sell internally, but then also how to sell themselves internally as well to get the spotlight. And ultimately, I think you mentioned this earlier, the budget right, because isn't that one of the the challenge is that you have as a part of selling to a buyer that isn't typically buying? Yeah, absolutely, they. They maybe do not have their own software budget right, so they they do have to do it their they of of internal selling, which they might not be used to, in order to gain that budget to be able to make up purchasing. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah. And I guess like I'm just extrapolating this to our own business because again, you know, I'm not joking about the at plus question acceled documents. But essentially, if our proposal manager is able to streamline that process, that means are able to more effectively, answer OURFP's better, which means that we should see our win rates increasing, which is something that makes everybody the company happy. I mean that's essentially the story that I imagine you're trying to tell. That is a one hundred percent the story. Yeah, I mean we talked about a quality versus quantity kind of play there. Yeah, by increasing efficiency, by saving you some time in your response process. What you do with that time back is is up to you, frankly, and so you can spend that time really refining your answers to those RFP's, doing a really great job of customizing and telling them more compelling story within your RF peace to hopefully with that business. So that's the quality piece, or you can, frankly, just take more, more hits at that and and just, you know, respond to a higher quantity of Lord. Sure, and if your win rate stays the exact same, yeah, you're going to bring in more business as a result. So, yeah, love it, super, super relevant and I almost like we would be a phenomenal prospect for Philipo. So we're sack. We should talk after this. We'll talk about yeah, I want to. I want to shift gears now and get into a specific campaign, because I think what's cool is that we've taken some time to understand a little bit about you, a little about...

Loupio and a little bit about your your audiences. So maybe now we can shift into a specific campaign, and I'm really excited to get into this because of what we've learned so far about those, those those previous topics. So do you want to maybe just give me like a Thirtyzero foot view of a campaign potentially it's objective? who were some of the the key target audiences and what were some of the interesting aspects of the campaign that perhaps were innovative or exciting? Yeah, let's do it. So very logically, the campaign that I thought would be fun to chat about today is one that was really built around helping those those proposal managers, or anyone else frankly doing, build consensus within their organization. And so we were finding, like probably many, many other types of companies, that you know, you give that initial demo to that initial contact, they see it, they're excited, they come back to you, they say, Oh, I'm you know, Bob and in this company or this department wants to see it. And also, and you know, Sally in this areal and it of course, the sudden you're running, you know, three, four different demos. The sales cycle is dragging on because you're waiting for the next person's calendar availability. You're given the same demo again and again, and so we wanted to do something to make that product knowledge just a little bit more accessible to folks, also give people a really great take away from those demos and give them something going into those demos. Sure it would how to form them. So we put together a little bit of an on demand video hub. This okay. We spend a bunch of time with our sales folks trying to make sure that we were validating assumptions about what the most critical parts of our platform are, the value that that those pieces of the platform were able to provide. And we pulled together six pretty short, you know, less than three minute long, videos, put them all in a hub and said this is this is essentially what you need to know about Lubyo. You could get on a sixty minute call with someone sure, where you could watch these these six videos, or you could send me six videos to to the people on your team after you've seen Lubyo, or you could watch these six videos before our demos so that we can actually spend that time in the demo talking more specifically about your use. Absolutely, so we wanted to test it out. Essentially, it was it was six videos to start. I can tell you you have a lot more requests for more videos, okay. But yeah, we created this hub and we put it on our website. So so available to the the general public. Yeah, you also included it in our email a lot of responders, so you know when you sign up for Demo you do have access to see these videos and advance. We put them in a couple nurture sequences as well to ensure the people could remember after the fact and we really encourage our sales team to use these to help address those questions about yeah, Bob here, Sally here wants to see this. Okay. Do they really want to see the full della? Or maybe maybe this is and asked, maybe they'll get the gist and and we can build consensus that way. My brain is going all over the place in terms of questions. I want to ask you about this because I'm...

...just really curious about the data, because I have to imagine when you architected this campaign, there's a pre video hub set of data and then a post video hub set of data. So what the heck was the impact, because I have to imagine. No, I mean like, did this have an impact that? I wondering if one of the KPIS was stills, like sales cycle. Yeah, I'm just wondering. Did you find that video was an effective medium to convey this type of information and, if so, did you see some type of obvious impact in whether it's still cycle or some other KPI? Yeah, so I think, yes, we did find that video was it's funny, I think that the appetite pudio. I just keep expecting it will, you know, hit some sort of like plateau at sell the point. Yeah, we'll get over video. No one's over video. Yeah, people of video. So definitely well received, definitely a good medium for us to attempt to give that and convey that that type of product knowledge. You know, I think we saw looking at at that that data, and I'm trying to think of what I could can share the surricifically, but a hundred percent. And you know, the goal was to enable that self driven exploration first and foremost as well. At the top of funnel, right, we hear all of those, although those like just general stats about how much your prospects are doing research before they talked to sales and how much they want to do that research either. Or they talk to sales and they don't want to necessarily have to do the demo to see the software, and so taking that friction away. I will say I don't know that we have a stat to show how that impacted sentiment, but we certainly do here, or we're doing when lost calls, for instance, that people have a general sense that Luio is uite open with its product and and willing to show the product and, yeah, not holding it kind of clothes to the chest, which can, especially if you're not familiar with by that can be quite off putting for folks who are trying to make a decision and just want to see the product. So that's impactful for sure. And then tell me about their suptivity about the sales organization. Was this something that they viewed as an aid or something that encroached on maybe, you know, their own sort of set skills? I'm just curious that. How did that process go of getting adoption across your sales organization to leverage this? Yeah, so I will say it was one of the the things that we did do from a start here was we worked with sales because I did have that same level of not concern but what wanting to make sure that they felt that this was an initiative that was going to support them and not not take away from them. And and in general, they were, I think, quite understanding and quite bought in, you know, thinking of not running necessarily three to four demos that may or may not be necessary throughout the the sales process. It certainly we're not saying that demos are not important. They are, but when you're trying to build consensus with you...

...know, maybe economic buyers, stakeholders, they don't want the full sixteen minute out they want the the short and staffy version is. So sales was pretty bought into bat and how I'd worked with them really specifically to make sure that the messaging was going to be aligned with the type of messaging that they were going to be then conveying in the devil. Yeah, we were able to all kind of get to a place where where we felt the the the campaign and the sales team, we're going to be very complementary. Yeah, it sounds like that must be. The way that you identified the topics of those six videos potentially is by collaborating with sales or potentially understanding like where specific conversations happen in the cycle exactly. We came to them with a list of ideas, they added a couple, we sort of ranked them together and, yeah, netted out at a place where we felt that these were the first sixth we wanted to start with. I want to ask you about the video specifically. Tell me a little bit about the video production. I mean we're these sort of animated three minute or less videos speaking to specific topic. And then data attribution. I imagine you must be actively measuring consumption and then potentially even attributing engagement to specific contact opportunities. So three questions in one kind of but I wanted to understand the the meat of this campaign, which is the video. How did you all sort of execute on that front? Yeah, well, I mean we definitely did, for instance, want to understand which videos we're being consumed more often than than other ones. So we did do that in our tracking process as well, to be able to say like, okay, looks like video of three is getting an awful lot of you sure and perhaps that deserves to be, you know me in a feeder iteration, broken down into more detail and we yes, or more. They're so absolutely as as part of our tracking princess, we wanted to write down that by that. Yep, what I'm trying out all the three three today. The AD attribute attributing, attributing engagement to net new opportunities or pipeline. Is that. Is there an extent of that? Are you extending the the tracking capabilities to I guess it's campaign outcomes, right, but basically saying, Hey, like you know, here's the cohort of buyers that actually engage with videos. This is how many new opportunities were generated, net new pipeline created. I mean, imagine your trip. You're actually attributing that pretty yeah, so we are. We are certainly and I will say at the same time, we also didn't want to we didn't want to track at the expense of making sure that it was very easy for people to get their hands all these videos. So, although they are they're gated on our website. We do have sales has the ability to just send direct links to folks so that you know, you you lose a little bit, you gain a little because you're just kind of making sure that you are able to be as transparent if you want. That's great. Yeah, but we absolutely I mean, I think you know, with any good campaign, you find that you learn some things you may or may not have necessarily set out to learn. Definitely found an engagement with this campaign. Is is one, you know, very strong predictor of intent to purchase a solution. Certainly, you know, I think we saw, I...

...think it's something around about a third of the people that actually do engaged on demand hub. They're already opportunity contacts. So we're seeing, frankly, the behavior we were really hoping to see, which is that it is being used, you know, as follow of after a demo to remind people have of what they saw, and also as a consensus building tool internally where, you know, they they've got their economic buyer taking a look as well. Absolutely in your inherently decreasing the cost of sale as well, because every new demo that you have to set up for those economic buyer, the other buy or and another department, that's time, money and energy, right. So just being able to eliminate that has impacts as well. Let me ask you. You know, obviously you mentioned some of the learnings. Does this speak to a doubling down in the video or there's some things that you definitely won't do as a result of what you've learned so far? Maybe you can just tell me a little bit about some of the takeaways from this particular campaign and what it votes for the future? Yeah, I mean, I will say that one of the things that we did learn as we wanted to increase our budget for true video going from sure, yeah, we did not overproduce these videos. I think that was one of the other questions that you asked. That's right. How did you go? Yes, that's rights. They're not animated there. Okay, very much, and frankly, that was the point. We wanted to show a real level of transparency. So it is the product who and it's not overly, you know, jazz edup in your way. There aren't really very many fancy transitions. It is our product in key areas and and showing those key work flows that are able to provide value and increase that efficiency. So nothing crazy, but at the same time, you know, we do not have a videographer on staff and so we had a product marketer kind of learning to put together some of these pieces and working with a freelancer too to make that happen. So it's a little scrappy, which is its law, but I think definitely going forward. We know, as we continue to do these types of projects, the first version is always a little bit, you know, a test. Let's see how this goes, then from there we think about how we make that more scalable and in the future. Nothing like a company that's recently raised two hundred million dollars having a little bit of a scrappy, scrappy approach to a campaign like this. That's exciting to hear. It was. It was pre funding. I will say free far there. Okay, that that we good cost either, although as a very funny story actually, as we need joke about this campaign as having probably the best Roi of maybe all of our campaigns, because we used these videos with DC furts to all show what the the product was all about. So yeah, to head, billion is it isn't a bad return on invest I'll will keep your eyes open for that update on your linked in profile. That's awesome. I really have joke. Oh Yeah, I got you that. I mean that's that's really phenomenal and it is really interesting to know we started this company in two thousand and thirteen in the number of animated product videos. You hear what the Ukulele in the background is, just like, my goodness,...

...it's just so. It's just so two thousand and ten. Okay, now you're late. He's so Ukulele is just seeing a straight up product demo and just understanding that like, the buyers are still buying. You know, it's like just show the product and that's that's good enough. That's what people want to see, and so that's really kind of exciting to hear again. You know, I often find myself being selfish and in these interviews like things that I want to take and start applying in our own business and and that's definitely something that I think there's a huge opportunity for, particularly in a little bit more of a complex sale where you have to get buy and from multiple stakeholders within the company. So that is really cool and I appreciate you sharing that and and sure for sharing this campaign. I'm curious and just a pivot a little bit. I mean, is you think about your own profession, your own career, whether it's within your company or just within the sort of ecosystem of marketers? Are there particular individuals that you look to sources of inspiration or mennorship or who should we be paying attention to or potentially reading that you find to be pretty impactful or have been impactful in your career thus far? Yeah, I mean that's a great question. I would say I mean not a not an individual, but broadly, certainly as a product marketer. I am a really biggin of the product marketing lines community. So they produce really great content around positioning, sales, enablement or market processes, all that good stuff. I also follow open view, the firm. They were previously Lubya's go to, but we definitely, definitely love seeing there's kind of BEB SASS pricing insights. They have a lot of thoughts on product led groves. So we keep an eye on rat to you, absolutely, but maybe individual that stands out. I don't know if you've heard of tomorrow Garminsky, but she's definitely soone I referend folks follow. She's the Chief Strategy Officer at bounced, which is a Canadian be tob software company. They produce planning pages for websites and she's she's an expert on identifying and going after you ask customers. Were sort of perfective customer segmentation. She also talks about things like product market bit category creation, so I always enjoy her insights. Cool. Okay, well, that's that's really awesome. I appreciate you sharing that and, frankly, allison, I'm super excited to have had this conversation with you today because I think there's some really, really important takeaways, particularly for be Tob SASS software companies that are going to market, just making it easier to get the information that's important to buyers and additional stakeholders in the company. What you've described is something that you know. One of the themes of growth marketing camp is demistifying growth marketing. You know growth. This is a word that I think it's so nebulous that oftentimes, if you're just coming into marketing, it can seem almost like insurmountable. Oh, how do I get into growth will oftentimes it's just understanding enough about your buyer and your product and simplifying things to the point where you're just making it easier to buy an easier to sell. And my...

...goodness, this is like such a don't take the wrong way. It's a simple way to get the information in the hands that people that need it, to make the buying process easier and thereby leading to impact on growth. So I make sometimes the simplest ideas are the best ideas. One percent. There are very few times when I feel like it's truly necessary to completely reinvent the wheel and do something crazy complex that's never been done before. Sure, sure, why not? Sounds Fun, but odds are you can find some pretty simple, effective solucheins, and I exactly, and campaigns that will have just as much in act. Yeah, that that's absolutely what I love the most about these conversations. I get a chance to talk to brilliant marketers like yourself, and what I keep hearing is, again, there's value and simplicity. Like you, don't need to overcomplicate it, don't need to reinvent the wheel, make it easier for your buyers to buy and, at the end of the day, like that will contribute to growth and a pretty effective fashion. kind of percent. Alison, I really appreciate you taking some time out of your day to join us on today's episode of Growth Marketing Camp. Is there anything else you'd like to let our audience know before we wrap up today. Oh, but it's Cheez fin out. Final words. I think exactly what you said. I think that, you know, people can feel intimidated by by growth marketing or product marketing and, frankly, I have away spelt sort of strange about it. This is my second podcast interview and I am still at a space where I feel a little bit stranger at doing it because I don't think that I have anything especially world shattering to offer. But I think, frankly, that's the point, is that none of us, you know, need to feel like, you know, anyone is up on a particular pedestal. We're all learning because we go and honestly being being a part of communities, listening to podcasts, hearing other people stories. That's probably one of the best ways that I learned myself. So it's why I am doing more these as well. Hopefully contribute to the conversation one hundred percent and I can't wait for someone to hear this conversation and be inspired and to learn as well. So thanks for contribution to our podcast and, ultimate to the community at large. Look forward to having you on next time. Yeah, it's great to chat. Thanks so much for your time. Thanks for listening to growth marketing camp. If you enjoyed this episode, would love it if you would give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to give a little more inspiration for their next campaign. You want to learn more about the company behind the show, had to open sensecom. That's Ope, en se n Secom will catch you on the next episode.

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