Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 58 · 5 months ago

The Full ABM Breakdown with Mason Cosby

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week’s episode of Growth Marketing Camp is packed with exclusivity, learnings, and insights into the powerhouse that we call ABM. Mason Cosby, Director of Growth at Mojo Media Labs (now Gravity Global - yup, we are privileged to be the podcast to exclusively announce this amazing acquisition), joins us to break down the ABM-A-Thon event they hosted.

Mason shares insights on who ABM is not for, who it’s for, and how marketing can be a strategic partner that helps drive sales. Plus, we touch on podcasting, how beneficial it is for personal growth and brand, and specific examples of how he uses different content channels to impress his audience, build brand trust, and ultimately, authority. Finally, he shares what motivated him to start his own podcast, The Marketing Ladder.

Mason Cosby is the walking example of how marketers that focus on long-term brand building strategies vs. short-term micro conversions always come out ahead. This is the episode you were waiting for, so tune in and enjoy!

Bound. Welcome to growth marketing camp, or we sit down with our favorite marketers to do mystify growth and give you the insights to help turn your next campaign into a major success. Let's get into it. Hey everyone, this is jazz binning, cohost of both marketing camp. Welcome to another episode. I'm very excited to introduce to you Mason Cosby, who is the director of Broth that motion media labs and currently a podcast host at the marketing ladder. Mason, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. Yeah, thank you so much for having me a really excited for our conversation day. Jazz, definitely, I'm super excited. Before I actually began, I do want to share. I have a couple of questions to ask the what you guys are currently doing and Moso media labs. But I did recently hear from you that you have some news to share and I definitely don't want to take take the light away. I would love for you share it. Yeah, so we have recently been acquired, so we are no longer Mojo media lads, we are gravity. Loloble, which is a global be to be agency. They're actually the most awarded agency in the world and we were specifically acquired for our hub spot and ABM chops. So a lot of the cantation today. We will send her on a PM and I'm excited. But if you hear US reference Mojo or gravity, they are the same, just still wearing the new the new brand. I'm sure it's going to take you guys, especially the Mojo team, a little bit of time to get used to it. But a big global Mosa media, they all sound great to me. I am curious. What is it that you guys do at Mojo? Now gravity global, and I know you guys specialize in ABM, so I'd love for you to share a little bit on what you guys do and kind of show the reasons why you think that gravity global also saw, and saying, value in you to do this acquisition. Yeah, so, I mean at our core we are an ABM agency, so we are not necessarily just running ads that we do a comprehensive strategy and we partner with our clients to align on revenue results. We but helped spot partner since about two thousand and twelve and the kind of the unique thing that we bring is that we are experts and help spot from all areas, from marketing, sales, service operations and website development and abms. When you marry this two together, you get an incredible strategy that is then married with right technology to actually scale it. We are strategy first. Kind of agencies that we're not going to you know, if your partner with us, we're not saying, right, here's the hundred thousand dollar Textac you need to purchase as well. Yep, but whenever you want to scale it up in a major way, we have the jobs to do just that. Yeah, no, I love that. And so you guys mentioned you have a couple of lets you up some big customers right now. Who is your target customer? Is it people who have been using ABM? I know there's a lot of companies out there that are still trying to figure it out, but what is your guys as target audience look like? Yeah, so Mojo was going after predominantly we're complex beb tech and manufacturing. Within now the larger Gravi a global team, we're more focused on really complex global markets. So, for example, one of the clients of gravity global is Airbus. So you know, for Mojo, yeah, we are really helping really niche technology companies or manufacturing companies actually go after their target audiences and their markets and close new business because, especially if you've got a piece of technology, most pieces of technology sold a very specific problem for a very specific industry and a very specific person in that industry. So doesn't make sense to run a massive wide net and makes the more sense to go out after our target approach. Got It. Got It. And then, in terms of you guys as customers and the challenges are currently facing, what does them look like in the Nia world? Couple of things that come to the mind immediately. One, it is a shift for marketers to align on revenue when you're used to running kind of a legion model in you know, the victories are around mqls versus did we actually generate pipeline? Did the business close? So there's...

...that. There's that shift. There's also then kind of the re educating of the rest of the organization, because the CEO starts to get really comfortable seeing, you know, twozo mqls were generated this month and when that dips pretty significantly because we're no longer measuring success on qls from measuring it on target accounts that are entering into the pipeline. There's a real ducation on that front. And then finally, markers, for better intra worse. Again, I am a marking be very clear, but some marketers have not been the best partners with sales. So we have to then read build a relationship with sales because again, if marketings going to be aligned on revenue, they need to be a good partner. That's your strategic partner that helps drive sales forward. So those are kind of the main problems that our clients are experiencing. Is around shifting the perspective of what is the role of marketing in our organization to be less of the the legion hamster wheel or like the fluffy brand stuff, which I also love branding. Just be very clear, but it's not just let's do the things that make our wide feel really good about our company, but how do we actually help people by having them partner with our company long term? Yeah, it totally becomes I well know one of the things that I've realized we haven't used ABM at open since we actually are partnered with some companies who specialize in it, like roll works. They built an ecosystem. We are a partner for kind of their customers ABM plays. A lot of companies use open since as an EBM solution, companies like Snowflake, which is also you know how we've been exposed to it, but us as a team specifically haven't done it yet. I do see a lot of value in it from what I've seen and heard from, you know, teams like roll works and Snuff Lake, and it seems like more and more people are starting to understand it. There's a lot more tools out there. Like Sandelso and we're using postal evil marketing right. He was a injuries and the open guys. But there's a lot of tools out there and I know one of the things that I continue to read time and time again on linkedin posts about ABM or blog posts is a lot of people still struggle to make abum work for them. So just curious, based off of your expertise and what you know about companies who have tried to execute on Adbm Strategy, who is ABM not for? Is there a certain size of company? I know you mentioned if you don't have a lot of alignment between cells and marketing, that could be either something that needs to be fixed or if it's it's not able to be fixed and that I can imagine. That would be a rent flag. But who specifically is a VM for and who is it not for? So the couple things I immediately come to mind. One just product market fit. I mean, if you are in that early stage and you're trying to actually figure out who is our product for, like do we actually serve the market? Well, Abium is not going to be a fit because it is about creating hyper personalize specific content that is around a specific problem for specific buyer. So again, if you're figuring out who is the buyer, you're not gonna be a good fit for ABM. The other thing would just be around higher deal sizes. So I think of companies that are in the Bab space but are like, for example, Sem Rash Sim rush. I think their highest contract values less than five thousand dollars a year. If you're like doing all the bells and whistles, there are fantastic company. They do great work, but they're not going to be a good fit for ABM because they need to in order to continue to grow. They need thousands of new clients on a annual basis, or tens of thousands, versus so the clients that we work with, like one case that we just released, they closed thirty five deals and it was five point seven million and revenue. So higher deal sizes make abium a better fit because you don't need to close as much. But also typically with higher deal sizes you've got a way more complex buying cycle, which is where EBM...

...is going to thrive, because you're not just targeting an individual, you're targeting all the decision makers within an account and created content that's going to help them move the deal forward internally. So those are kind of two things can probably market fit and then also kind of hired deal sizes and then also kind of a longer sale cycle because again, if you're so focused with creating hyperpersonal life content, but the deals are closing in a two week sale cycle, fantastic. If you've got a large deal size, you're closing a two weeks, but you need a bit of a longer sales cycle so that you can actually engage the accounts in such a way that is influencing the way that they think and brought in the right content at the right time. No, totally makes sense and I know that you guys, since you are an abium agency, of course you are probably practicing ab able's the stuff that's worked for you guys, that you have found. You know it's brought a lot of success. I love for people, when they're running a pilot campaign, to always use tools that they currently have and I am a big proponent of building things on to string budgets to prove value and to then, as a result, drive revenue. So I have been running the weirdest Abim strategy that is the most circuitous but has been insanely effective, and it is podcasts. And I personally run a marketing careers podcast in my in my free time, and I've helped my bass start to build our own podcast. So we in Buye our target accounts to come talk to us and with me. They're talking through their career and how they built it in the roles of their hiring for in the strategic vision of the company, and then my boss's podcast talking about how they've grown their business. And we don't do an immediate follow up on from a sales perspective at all. Actually we we never say hey, thanks so much, talk about us. Hey, we want to talk about like partner with us now, because it just kind of it's not the right move. But by the simple fact that we invite someone on, we start to develop a relationship that's a onetwone relationship. We give credit to their expertise while also sharing our own insights and thoughts and opinions. What we've seen is that three to six months after a guest has come on, many of them will engage in conversation. And then the other thing that I've done personally, and this is also free, as I go and connect with a bunch of my target accounts on Linkedin, so I'm connected with the decision makers. I'm creating content on a daily basis, if not multiple times a day, and through that they've become an actively engaged part of my audience. And then I'll make a post about ABM and they'll like it and often the method that says hey, thank you for engaging it by content. I really appreciate this. Fort There's absolutely happy to do it. You're always so helpful and like awesome, what's most helpful. And then they'll say something about the ABM posts, at which point I know that they trust me. I say, thank you so much, let's help watter ADM post. Then we dive into and when into papping is, I'll share with me. I've actually shared your content with our CEO. It's a proof of concept. I'm like, that's awesome. Would it make sense for us to talk about partnering at that point, because you're sharing my stuff with your CEO. You Trust me. So those are the two plays and that costs thirty dollars a month, as long as you can actually get the right list into the targeting, which many people can do within their own crm by focusing on a closed lost campaign. So look all the deals that you've lost in the past twelve months. Re engage them by inviting them onto a podcast and connecting with them on Linkedin. It's Tarty to engage there and that's a great way they can restart a relationship. Oh, I absolutely love that idea and I'm going to after discovered. Its Nice for you got down and Dr Sales to about that. That is such a fantastic ating and you know, one of the things that you mentioned that is a huge turnoff for just anyone. Right, if someone connects with you on Linkedin and you get that sales pitch, which I'm sure you're getting it a lot. I'm getting it like crazy and it is besides the fact that you're building real relationships with people, you're actually having a conversation with them, you get to know them on a personal level. You spend some of that time. Well, we've even noticed since we've started growth marketing camp, we're at this, we're at the phase now we're a lot of the companies that have come on to growth marketing camp. They are also the kind of brands that were like, Hey, let's be content partners. We'd love to repurpose this the podcast episode, and...

...you guys publish it on your blog. We get the link back and they are so much more ready to say yes and so excited about it because we've already built that relationship with them. We've basically, you know, continue to engage with them. Gi Lena does a fantastic job with this, keeping that relationship alive and it's just one of those things where it will never feel like a sales pitch when you do tap their shoulder and say, hey, you know, how about we do x YC. So I love that you do that and I can really see the value in it for Mojo gravity and it's something that you're I write's a shoe string budget's not going to cost a lot of money and I love that you, you guys, are using it at your company. That's awesome. Can I give one other quick example? Yeah, hundred percent. Two or three weeks ago, I can I think it's three weeks at this point, I was actually promoted to Director of growth, which was I was excited about it. Post about on Linkedin and because I had built relationships with our target accounts, the announcement that Linkedin all it on. That does in the post I did after collectively got about four hundred and fifty likes, which is, you know, pat on my back, fantastic. But the reality is of those four hundred and fifty, about a hundred of those were my target accounts, to which I could then say and Finnem a DM that said Hey, thank you so much. I'm really scited about this new role. Really appreciate your support and they're like absolutely as anything I do to help, to which I can respond with absolutely actually in this new role and really excited to help people build better ADM programs, leveraging up spot. So if you know anybody that needs help with adm our hug spot, please in my way. It's in a hundred DMS. We generated one point two million dollars in pipeline in the fan of a week and I have thirty upcoming fall. Like follow ups just that were like, we might actually use your services in about a month. Can you follow up with me again? That came from having built relationships and when something happened in my light, my target accounts want it to celebrate me because we built a relationship. I can then use those relationships to actually then help them by inviting them to enter our sales process. Yep, Yep, no, I love that. I absolutely love the idea. And another thing I'm going to try to steal with this. It is actually when what you guys are doing, what you're doing, specifically when you guys are doing at your company, when you do things like that, is yours kicking off that sales conversation with if sales decided to reach out independent of doing something like this, you're actually kicking off on the highest note possible versus trying to take a cold lead and really try to warm up. And I think a lot of the resistance I've read around ABM would be hey, you know, it takes too long, but the thing is it may take a little bit longer, but imagine the amount of time you're wasting and Resources and budget if you're doing the traditional approach versus following through something like this, which is long term because you are building that relationship. The examples that you've shared are almost like unique enough for you don't think about it, but powerful enough where it's going to leave a lasting impact on that individual well. And then obviously revenue, which is just shared. Absolutely that besides the common besides podcasting, what are the other what's the other kind of content you guys are producing at Mozo? So a couple of things. One would be highly taxable. Monthly workshops. So we would do something that was called fixture site, from Church to sale, and people would submit their websites for review. We do live reviews of our target accounts and then, following that workshop, I would sit in this room for about fifty hours and build out personalized website reviews and technical audits for about forty websites that were submitted that were again our target accounts, and we have influenced and influenced fifty six deals in the past year that received a website review. We've done at three times. So we send out a hundred and twenty reviews. Fifty six deals were influenced and fourteen were specifically sourced from that event. So again, that's driving pipeline revenue and it's the very basic workshop in Webinar the with a very intentional follow up. And then, based on the success of this monthly workshops, I had...

...the thought of what's the next biggest thing that we could do that's not just like a monthly one hour Webinar, but like what's what's next? And it was a daylong virtual conference called ABMTHON, where we did about twenty sessions and we specifically cater all of our marketing and all of our collateral around inviting target accounts to that event. It was publicly accessible. We at seven hundred people register for the event, but all of the the adspend was focused on trying to get target a count to the event. Caught it yells. I was I've seen me my next question to talk about that. So it seems like you guys also partnered with a couple other vendors or you guys absolutely hosted that crush that, by the way, think it happen in April and I do want to know if you guys going to do that again, because I would love to have an invite to that. But how did that look like, trying to get people on board, and how many of these have you guys done in the past? So I'll go ahead and answer the the second question. This was the first time we've ever done it and it was the first time anyone on our team that ever hosted any kind of a virtual event of that scale. We'd only ever done monthly webinars. We have formal tech partnerships with companies like hub spot, terminus, sales entil in Sindoso, and again we are trategy first agency, but we also recognize at some point you'll need the appropriate tech. So if we have these tech partnerships, we can then recommend technology that we know will work well together. So with that, when we started this ABM April event idea it was going to be like a weekly Webinar over a month of April with our different ABM partners and then spun into a Bmfon, which is the daylong virtual conference. And with that I just essentially said to our tech partners, I want to recognize you as sponsors, but your sponsorship is showcasing your skill sets for promoting the event. So sales ententel provide the target account list and all the intend data and track the intent data around the target accounts for three months to make sure we run getting the right people at the right time at the right accounts. Send Ooh so covered the cost of all of the sens and we sent out custom branded at moth on headbands, because maybe I was a marathon, not a sprint, and then terminus ran all those play ads and made sure that we were doing a countbase advertising, at which point we then just had to cover the actual event platform itself. So from a cost perspective, including my time, it cost less than twenty five tho dollars to do the entire event. That again had seven hundred registrants, three hundred and fifty of which came from organizations that were over twenty million dollars in revenue. So I would say that's a that's a successful event and we've already we already seen closed revenue that was sourced back to that event and it's this is recorded at some point in June. Yea. That is incredible, especially for a virtual event, to see those kind of numbers and that to you guys is first virtual event. That is insane. So Major, major props to you even trying to think about that number right now. It during a time where people are so exhausted by virtual events. Yeah, and you guys like killed it, and it sounds like you are also able to tap the cut your partners to do something that makes the most sense for them. So that's those is something that I feel like most, most markers don't think about, which means you've been think about it Frinver for quitible while, Mason. I absolutely love that. So curious. It does sound like it was very, very successful. If you could change anything, one thing, or if you were had to do it all over again, which I'm sure, considering all successful was you will any less of this. Learn anything you would do differently, anything you would double down on the next time you do this, I would invest more heavily in the specific event platform, because the platform itself is the experience for the end user. And again, we spent less than twenty FIVEZERO dollars, including my time, and I spent a hundred and twenty hours personally putting the event together from November to April. So we did not spend a whole lot of money on the event platform. As a proof of concept, we use something called Zoom events. It's a fairly basic platform. It gets the job done, but we launched the...

...campaign and everyone that had been around kind of helping it and like proofing it and making tureity worked already had their email as a speaker or as a sponsor or as something evolved related to the event. It didn't hit me until the way it launched ads that no one had actually looked at it, that was not actively involved in the event and for whatever reason zoom events has it to where it's not a publicly accessible event. So you would click on the link in an ad and get a four or four and I found out thirty minutes before we did a linkedin takeover where everyone from every speaker, from four different organizations was going to post on Linkedin at the same time. So I had thirty minutes to create a fix so we could still get registration, because there's no way to like change, Hey, we're not going to all post it noon today and communicate that to thirty people across four different organizations. So the thing that I would change is like invest in the event platform, because the event platform is the experienced and then bring in people that have nothing to do with the event to double check everything. Well, that sounds extremely extreating stressful. Almost had a heart attack. We did solve it. We just quickly threw up a form on the on the landing page and gathered everybody's information that we needed and then, well, we ended up doing just kind of keeping that there and creating a essentially a duct tape together program. There's no integration, there was no anything. So I had to there's a whole thing. All that to say, if I could go back, I would not skimp on the platform, because platform would have cost us an additional in the fifteen thou dollars. So the entire event investment would have still been less than thirty five. And at that point, when we've been invited speak at conferences and it's three thousand seven five hundred to speak at a conference for a thirty minute virtual session, to own the event for less than it would cost for thirty minutes, I feel like it's still a worthwhile investment, hundred percent. Or you can find one of those great event you know platform, and get them to be a partner right that? Yeah, that's honestly, that's a plan for next time? No, I absolutely so. It sounds like still it was very, very successful. How did you guys continue and how are you, because it happened back in April, it's just literally a couple of months away. How are you continue to engage the the attendees and the registrants? Yeah, so I'll be completely candid. I did not know that there was going to be an acquisition when we launched abmason. So the main purpose behind abma thon was honestly more of a content creation, of a brand play, because we recorded fifteen hours of abium specific content with all of our Mojo branding on it and the spin of a single day. So the plan was to use that content for micro eclips following the event to then drive traffic towards an ABM resource out. So if you want to access all the concert maybe with on good to motor medial APPs that complash atm it's completely ungated. All the slides are there. Everything, including some product did us from our from our tech partners. So I give you that context to say, following the acquisition we will then give all of that content to sorry, following the announcement of the acquisition and all that fun stuff. We'll give all that content to the video team and they will turn that into microclips that drive traffic towards the new landing page. That will be a part of the gravity website. And as far as how we're re engaging that existing audience that's already been actively engaged posting on linked in. So many of them are a part of that one point two million that dirnted the pipeline last week and we are we send a couple of emails that were around, Hey, here some additional abum content, but we're not. We're not forcing them to schedule a call. That was in the purpose. It was entirely an education and brand play. It is from my perspective. If you provide genuinely highly valuable content and information and actually help people, they'll trust you in the leader line from you or they'll tell somebody...

...else to buy from you because they trust you. And the referrals we've gotten as a result of that event as well have proven that it's more important to build trust and build a brand and built authority than to make sure you get all the micro conversions across the funnel. Yep, yeah, no, I totally agree. It's this kind of goes back into the thing that you shared earlier were you guys are spending that time reviewing people's websites, are offering all of that for free and you're positioning your that yourself as the experts in ABM and you also getting signals on, you know, who's interested, who's actually looking to improve their brand or improve their website at those touch points. So I love all of that. So, shifting gears a little bit to focus a little bit more on you, I am curious, is abm something that you were thinking about before you joined Mozo media, or is it something that you learned while working at this company? So I had my introduction to ABM probably two and a half years ago. So I was I was the first marketing hire at a rapid, the growing SASS company. I talked with an agency and they threw out this concept of of ABM as a viable strategy and I was like what's that, and then he explained it to me over a calls like that, seems relatively interesting and I did some I read some blogs and really at that point of my career I was more focused on copywriting and branding and brand messaging that I was Abim was not on the radar because I was trying to completely help reposition a brand to actually so hold a side note. So when I shorted, looking at partnery and starting to work at Mojo, I saw that abium was a big focus of theirs, because it was. It was on the job description if we had left on the abum experience. So when I looked at what I was actively doing at the company where I worked, it was very clear. I'm doing the messaging in the content component of ABM and like creating right content, I'm not doing the targeting piece. So let me take a step back and focus in on the targeting piece. And then, as a result of then getting hired on my Mojo and being the dedicated marketer of an Abium Marketing Agency, we launched pilot programs for ourselves. We launched an absurdain amount of content around the subject, most of which I wrote or coordinated or talked about. So it has really been for me personally, throwing myself in the deep end to say, if I'm going to engage CEOS and CMOS and beat piece of marketing on ABM, I need to know this like the back of my hand. So over the past really two years. That has been what I've been doing, is I just kind of live and breathe ABM and as a result, I mean it didn't really come on the scene unil two thousand and sixteen, twenty and seventeen. So it's a relatively new concept that everybody still relatively figuring out. So it wasn't something that was just I have to be an ADM marketer, but the more I've learned about it, the more I recognize this is a fantastic way to actually scale revenue and it's Super Fun. It sounds like it sounds like a lot of fun the stuff that you've shared. So you know, I know you mentioned that you're you're trying to kind of dive in a bull fee. How do you stay up today? What are the resources of use? Are there's specific people or companies that are killing it that you that you you were using to get inspired by? I think the most helpful thing personally is having my own podcast where I speak with people that probably wouldn't not not because they're not nice people, but they're all busy. I mean they're all literally CMOS VP's and marketing directors at like Twozo, person companies. So to hear the way that they think about marketing, the roles that they're hiring for, the way that they came up through it over the past. For any of them it's been two and three decades that they've been marketing. To hear how they think is incredibly helpful. And then the other thing is I host weekly sessions where people can just pop in and ask any question that that they want about ABM and as a result of hearing the questions that are being asked, I then stay up to date because I have to feel my again to answer literally any quite like there's no they're so prep it's literally some many pops. Then...

...ask question that could be high level strategy, like what is ABM to how do I make sure that this work clow works appropriately within help spot to get everything that I want? I've answer that whole gauntlet. So by that trial by fire I stay pretty up to date. I love both of them. And the first thing you mentioned to the you know, inviting and having actual conversations with people on your podcast. That's a great example. Like even the short conversation, I've already learned a bunch of things from you that I'm like right. You know, I'm gonna drop those down and going to take a look, because conversations from people who are actually living, breathing and they've been working in it. It is so underrated. You don't realize how important that is, because a lot of things, if you're reading blog post or watching whether other things, still kind of get lost in translation. But when you really listening, you get a chance in our opportunity, to dig deeper, like we did during this conversation, and also the rapid fire you having to do that on a weekly basis. Like props to you for putting yourself in that situation, but it's keeping your your muscles flexed, which is awesome. I know you recently transition too a new role. Do you want to share a little bit about that role? Did it come to you, did it naturally, or is it something that you've been looking for and what's next for you in terms of your career? So, as far as the the new role of Director of growth, you know I had been marketing director of Mojo and that means that I was the marketing person at a marketing agency, which is an interesting concept in and of itself, and our sales route got an incredible opportunity to go work at deloit and we were very happy for her. But when she kind of let us know that she was stepping out of business, we all kind of look around and I was like all right, well, I'd have the conversation in my boss like I feel like I'm the obvious choice, and I actually built the role and I'm still the marketing strategic lead. I still do marketing, I still recognize and really view myself as a market and more than a salesperson, but I also now lead our sales process and what that means is if people want to walk into a conversation and talk about partner with Mojo, they get to talk with me and we have a highly strategic conversation and more often than not I'm referring them to somebody else that could be a better partner, because I'll began to when I was brandsided, I got screwed by a lot of agencies that just lied in the process, that just we're really just not actually there to help me, but actually just want my money. And we're on like I love row revenue, fantastic, but I want to go revenue because we're helping you grow your revenue even more so. My new role is essentially being that person that's gonna shoot you straight and say, I think we're going to be a great fit, I think we're going to hurdering you a ton of money actually help you move your mission forward work. Hey, I know a ton of other people that are fantastic that'd be a better fit for you, and that's that's kind of what that new role looks like. Is managing the the strategic elements of our marketing, so I can stay stay up to date and kind of stay in the weeds and then guide people throw a sales process and make sure that they're getting what they need. Yep, it's so. Yeah, definitely sounds like more of a like an advisor relationship, which is Great. In terms of your team specifically, what does that look like? Who are the people that that you're able to going to tap into? Is it mostly sales? Its sales end marketing. So the team makeup right now, and this is about to again radically change, so as it stands, it is myself. We have someone that is a rev ops person, so they're making sure that everything is running beautifully within our crm and all of our data and they are really looking at a lot of the like operational components and making sure everything skills. And then I have somebody that I work with on more of the tactical execution elements of our marketing, so like writing the blog post, scheduling out the emails, editing the PODCASTS, those kind of tactical elements. And then we have my boss, who is the owner of our agency, and I very, very generously use her as kind of building her up into more of a thought leader.

So she's incredibly intelligent, she is way smarter than me, so I kind of use her as the big guns whenever we've got a really big client opportunity that that needs somebody that is president versus director of growth, and just kind of making sure that she's coordinated for podcast interviews. So that is the that is the core team at the moment, but it's about to get way bigger. Yeah, it's I was going to say it's definitely going to change, which is going to be a new challenge, but a lot of fun for you, I'm sure. Yes, what do you think are the most important skills you've learned right since you've been here? I'm sure you had to navigate a lot over the last two years too. But in your your current role, what are the skills that you've realized that have either made you a better marketer or you feel like you need to have, you know, XYZ, to really succeed in this place, in this role, in this time? I am very much so what is called an entrepreneur. So I'm not an entrepreneur, but I am I'm just somebody. I I build stuff, like I just learn and I just I just enjoy the building process because for me, like, I could totally still write blogs and when I started at Mojo that was mostly what I did. Is there a ton of blog content, but it is not something that I necessarily enjoy as much. Of this point and what we found is that that works really, really well. So this, like, the skill set that I've learned that I need to lean into is that I'm very comfortable with ambiguity. I'm very comfortable being an idiot and like trying to figure things out and are really really comfortable with failure and leaning into that and saying we're going to try a lot of new things and I'm going to build new stuff and then I'll train people how to do the things I'm building. And I'll go continue to build new things. Is a is a unique skill set in and of itself that I feel like, if I were to talk about, like what I've learned in hub spot, it like that's those things are helpful and I need to know those things for my job, but the things that have like helped actually push our agency forward. It is the ability to say what's the coolest, craziest stuff that we could build, that we can do our hue stringer budget and see if it works, and recognizing that that is a skill set, because not everybody thinks that way and for whatever reason I do it. Definitely, it is definitely a skill set and it's one of those things where you don't realize, but most people, even where I've worked in the past, you'll have certain managers, will have certain people in your team who are very risk reverse, but they're comfortable with that and you kind of see a comfortable level of growth for that team and that company. And then there's people like you, which everything you've done from doing those kind of weekly sessions, willing to take willing to almost make yourself look like a full technically right, and if it's like hey, I'm I'm actually sure, but putting yourself out there and willing to be wrong, willing to be just, you know, deal with the some of the stuff that happen when you shared to happen at the Abim, a thon which I beg you. Anybody would have had a massive art attack. But it's like, instead of being cautious, you're brave and you're bold, and so people who are less risk averse and they're willing to take those risks of they're going to jump in with both feed they're willing to test things. Fortunately, you don't have to do with with without sacrificing a lot of budget. They get further in life and the companies get further in life. So definitely a rare skill set. I still haven't seen. I don't see it often and it must also be a rare one of the skills that I can imagine you have is the ability to influence in, like get buy in from your executive team on some of these crazy ideas that you have. So how has that been? Yeah, I even before I answer that question. I mean if it were just me, this would not work like this skill set is a highly volatile skill set. If it works, it works. If it does it. It's awful and I'm very fortunate that I've got incredibly detail. Are you to people around me that are highly, like tactically oriented and are really, really good at making sure that things don't drop? Because if it were just me to my own devices, I just go built crazy things and their...

...details I get missed. So, like it is my greatest skill set is also my greatest weakness. So going to be very clear on that front that I have an incredible team around me that like make sure we don't screw everything out. As far as how did I get my boss and get executive by in, I started with what they were comfortable with and then slowly added in new elements. So again, we were we were predominantly a hup spot agency. So when I started I was writing two blogs a week and like pumping out a ton of ATM content and I was able to verifiably show, Hey, we've been doing this for three months, we have not seen revenue. I'd like to start seeing revenue. So what can we do that little bit differently. So we peeled back one blog and we started doing one month to workshop. I wanted to launch a podcast and my boss was super busy again at the time that didn't know that she was negotiating an acquisition. Now understand a whole lot more why she was out of town. But I wanted to start a podcast for agency and it just wasn't happening. So I then launched a podcast in the thirty dollars a month of my own money and like just continuing to slowly iterate without sacrificing the things that they already recognized they were comfortable with. Especially when you start a new role like your capacity at the beginning is a whole lot of learning curve, but as you learned they do those new things. You can do this work quickly and more effectively. You then open up your bandid. Some people will just say, awesome, I've got more time to do less work, while other people will say I've got more time to feel it can make impacts of the agency. Again, I'm a one and marketing team, so I look around it if like it's marketing source. It was the only optionist that it was me, so I don't have to worry necessarily as much around like tracking individual channel metrics. It's more of like holistically, it's marketing driving revenue and what specific initiaties are doing that. So again, it was the slow iterative process, and if we had started day one with eight Amazon it wouldn't have worked. Yeah, but I slowly built trust and showed hey, this is why this is the next logical step. All of this is experimental. Everything could totally fail at any point, but so far it seems to be working well. You should keep going down this path. Yeah, yeah, I know, I totally agree and I love that you mentioned that to the team. Definitely, definitely, especially your leadership team, the other people that are in teaming keeping you in check. They're the ones who helped make it very successful. Elsie, could be like a fantastic disaster to which, you know, company like yours and any other company WHO's, you know, taking their stuff very seriously. They have customers, they've got process. You're not going to take those kind of riffs. So absolutely love that. In terms of you specifically, who were your role models, who inspires you and who do you think we should invite to the show? And it's time. Yeah, I mean, in many ways it is actually my own boss. I'm not just saying that, but I mean I genuinely value her insight. She's been doing this for fifteen, twenty years and she and I are very similar in the way that we think and are wired and I'm thankful for the person that makes sure that we get don't just implode between the two of us. But she's been a lot to help actually grow me into a more professional marketer versus some of it's just like, I don't know how to say it, but it's just like right eye and bushy jails, like let's go build all the things. But like I'm a lot more strategic as a result of having to justify spend. Even though it's not a ton of spend in the grand scheme of things, I still have to get executive by in and she's willing to work with me to make sure that we get there. So that's that's a huge one. And then, honestly, as far as the content people that I engage with it on a daily basis, it would be trace Shanniman, who's the C mmo of a company called the ask method, TC Jennings, who to see you, of a company called to six performance marketing. It would also just be people like Kathleen booth that, from a distance, I've had her on my own podcast. I had a couple interactions with her. She's just incredibly talented and skilled marketer. That works and I'm at a much larger organization in the executive seat, so I could. I can list off probably twenty people, but there's a there's a I made Michlinton Post that at tomorrow just to list everybody out, but it's I've been incredibly blessed by the opportunity to have a podcast where I...

...can then invite my heroes to talk about how they became who they are. So sorry, the list is really long. It's okay, I'll check it out tomorrow then, if you if you post on Linkedin. Yeah, last couple of questions and then I will let you go. He's are just a little bit more fun questions and it kind of helps us get to know I guess a little. If you get to pick one mutant superpower, what would you choose? It's a let the thing. Okay, all right, that's a new one and I have not heard. The goal of marketing is to understand your buyers and a Nerstan how they think. So it's left with the I could literally read their minds. Well, that is absolutely a fantastic idea. Most of the ones I've heard so far, like stopping time. You can mind control, which is a you don't even have to think. You could just speed on in flips them, which is my good. There's a moral there's some moral issues of that. So all right. And then what is one thing that you want to make happen, like one dream, one legacy you want to leave behind you, specifically, Mason. So the reason I do all the I mean because the marketing ladder is not it's a passion project. I don't make any money off of that, like but I helped place twenty marketers. The whole reason I'm doing any of that is when I got laid off, you know, to two and a half years ago. It was a terrible, terrible, terrible experience and I went four months without I had literally a thousand interviews, not even a joke. So the legacy, the thing that I would want to see happen is eventually, I know at some point in my life, I will watch a business as entirely around helping young professionals or people that are experiencing a bid life crisis to actually take the step back to understand what is their purpose, like, why are they here? And then aligning their life and actually putting them on a path towards building a career and building a life holistically, not just the career, but holistically that aligns to their purpose, their mission, their vision, their passions. That will probably happen the next fifteen to twenty years. The goal right now is to be as impactful and helpful as a marketer for the purpose that, with the career trectory that I'm all on, I will learn so, so much that I can then help others with, whereas if I were to launch that today, I've got like three things I can offer. If so, that's a long term vision. Thanks so thank you for sharing that story. By the way, I did not realize that working ladder came from that. The fact that it did and it did actually come from that time which you we could personally experienced, makes it feel that was more impactful too. And just curious. I know you mentioned for four months you were kind of unemployed and he sent about a thousand yet, about a thousand interviews. What did you do during because I'm sure there's people that are employed right now like what did you do during that time besides just applying for jobs? Did you take advantage of like, did you ever have a moment where you're trying to figure out what it is you wanted to do right, to have that like mid little midlife crisis, or did you do some professional development? Honestly, I should have. I read some books, but the fuller context is the month before I got laid off, I got engaged and I had just bought a house and out of mortgage and it was covid. So and my fiance moved to a different state for the summer. So there there wasn't really a whole lot that I was doing. Honestly, I was pretty driven and motivated to get a job because I had just made it a promise to someone that I'm going to provide for them. So should I have probably done to professional development? That would have made my interviewing experience is better. Yes, but was I wholly and solely motivated to get a job of any kind? Also, yes, yeah, Yep, I'm glad you mentioned that. I actually had the exact same, exact same experience. I was working at an agency the four Tun of this was before Covid so I didn't have to you. Have you had like the curveball of covid thrown in, but we had just me and my fiance, I just now husband signed up. We had basically got a mortgage and I was working in in cryptocurrency agency. So it was looking absolutely wild. It was like fire festival. It was fire festival, but if the Canadian version of that. And we had a wedding book for...

September. And this was two thousand and eighteen. I lost my job in March two thousand and eighteen and I was still in discussion with our mortgage broker and I had to let her know I just lost my job. I know we got pre a like we got approved. What do we do? And it was the most I had a panic attack at the lawyer's office. I could. It was my first post. I'm like to had a panic tack lawyer's office and she basically said I can just still put you down, and looks like you've had, like you haven't had a long period of not being unemployed. I can put you down. But it was just signing that contract, I remember, and signing our deposit away, knowing that we had two major debts that was just going to consume my life and I did it then. At that point it was like all right secre swim. So I spent a lot of my time and energy trying to get freelancers and that's when I was fusing for a little while and it made it and it made me a stronger person to so a hundred percent, I totally emphathize with what you went through. It is so, so stressful. I wasn't thinking about professional development, I wasn't thinking about fitness, I was thinking about anything except for how do I make money so I can pay off the mortgage and pay off that wedding, because we just took both of them in the same year. Cheese. Yeah, stressful, so so stressful. But now I look back and I'm like, I wouldn't change a damn thing from what happened, and no regrets, absolutely no regrets. I'm glad that it worked out for you too. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Yeah, yeah, essentially everything that's happened as started from that point of because once I landed the job and then I figure how to do the job. So yeah, eighty ninety hour weeks first six months to learn how to do marketing before I got married and then was able to provive for a wife. So No, another absolutely, absolutely love it. And now, look, you're basically an autopilot, but you're continuing to well, you're more an autopilot than you were before. Does it sound like you've ever been autopilot, though? I don't think so. I don't have to start a lot of them. For the Guard station I just had with you. You don't see like an autopilot kind of guy. And one last thing. What's one thing you can all live without? My Wife. I know I actually yes, and there's there's no, there's no to dying that. But the other thing would just be I think, honest to goodness at this point, as you sounds so cheesy and Corny, but I mean I really do attribute a lot of the growth in professional development and all of that to being active on Linkedin. And I hate to I had to be the guy that's like probably couldn't live without Linkedin, but the reality is, like I attribute a lot of the life that I now get to live to the relationship that have been built on the platform. So if you want something that is not my spouse, which obviously comes wait first, it would be probably. It would probably be linked in as a other thing. I don't think I could live without such a nerd a. it's a it works for you. And literally after this conversation I'm like art, I'm so posting on Linkedin. Our team definitely can't live without linked in too. We have an eventalist program most of the employees in our company are actively using linkedin. We've seen a lot of value from it. We use it actively to get the kind of guests of your caliber right, the kind of guests that we are absolutely inspired by on our show, by building those relationships. So I totally see why you pick linkedin. I do love that. Obviously, spouse comes first. Yep, linkedin come second, and I totally agree with both of those answers. To thank you again, Mason, for joining us on growth breaking camp. It was an absolute last having this conversation renew and how can people connect with you that? Can they find you? Linked in? As the made one? Yeah, so, MSO in cosdy. I am not Mason Crosby, I am Mason Casbay, and the other one would just be the marketing ladder. It is wherever you find podcasts and if you look for somewhere where you find podcasts and you don't find the market ladder, please let me know and I will try to fix it definitely and we will link both marketing ladder and Mason's Linkedin on our posts when this does go out. Once again, congrats, major props for the promotion and for the acquisition.

This was an awesome chat and I will catch you guys later. Thanks for listening to growth marketing camp. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you'd give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to give a little more inspiration for their next campaign. If you want to learn more about the company behind the show, had to open sensecom. That's open se en Secom. Will catch you on the next episode.

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