Growth Marketing Camp
Growth Marketing Camp

Episode 44 · 9 months ago

We’re Hopping On A TikTok Train For B2B With Refine Labs’ Todd Clouser

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

No matter the platform, people always respond to raw authenticity and a bit of humor. And at this very moment, there’s no one more authentic than Todd Clouser, Senior Brand Marketing Manager at Refine Labs. Or his TikTok aliases, Yaboi Tucker, Boss Man, and Gregory.

In this episode of Growth Marketing Camp, we are exploring the relationship between content creation and demand gen, and hopping on a TikTok train for B2B. Todd joins us to share tips on the easiest way to get started on TikTok (especially if you’re camera shy), how to grow (& move) your audience from various social media platforms, and what inspires him to create content that breaks the LinkedIn algorithm. Tune in and enjoy!

Welcome to growth marketing camp, or we sit down with our favorite marketers to do mystify growth and give you the insights to help turn your next campaign into a major success. Let's get into it. What's up everybody? It is Bobby Murraying, host of growth marketing camp. Welcome to this week's episode. I am super excited to welcome todd clouds, er, senior brand marketing manager at refine labs, onto the show. Todd, nice to meet you. Thanks so much for joining us today. Hey, thanks for having me. Man Yep, excited for this conversation today. You know, for those of you who aren't aware, todd is spearheading trend for B tob marketers to have a little bit more involvement in social media platform called Tick Tock, which I'm sure many of you who are listening are probably familiar with him. We're going to spend a lot of time talking about that today. But, todd, before we get into the really the imante potatoes of our conversation today, I did want to ask you about refine labs. Tell me a little bit about what the company does and perhaps how they're creating value for their customers today. So refine labs is. It's a lot of people kind of associate us with a marketing agency, but we're really a lot more than that. We're really helping customtomers rethink the way that they look at demand generation, from like the traditional Leagen to actual demand generation, and our CEO, Chris Walker, has really been kind of leading that that Movement for the past couple years and it's really been growing a lot recently. It's cool exciting when it comes to this idea of demandgin versus legion. Is there a relationship between that concept and perhaps some of the the work that you've sort of yourself been involved with, because you know from your background it looks like no, content creation, for instance, has been something that you've sort of been prolific with. Is there a relationship between, and say, content creation and demangin and if there is, do you mind maybe just extrapolating on that a little bit? Yeah, for sure so, and honestly, this is this is what really attracted me to refine labs the in the first place. My background has always been in content creation as like the medium to get people to take some sort of action, and and that maybe a that may be a bad way to say it because, like the content in its self is not like pushing people towards an action. It's always been educate, entertained, like build this community of people that just loves the content and then when they're when they're ready to buy or they need something that you're offering, like you're the first one they think of. Absolutely that's that's the whole concept behind demand jen over Legen, which is, you know, what people have been doing for a while, which you know, we're all very familiar with, you know, gating content and, you know, trying to capture people's emails so we can follow up with them. Absolutely, absolutely, and you know, I think about that because it feels like Leegen is something that's very like funnel metrics driven. You know, what you put in versus what you get out content creation and demandin perhaps is, you know, maybe a little bit more open ended. This reminds me of a conversation I had with a gentleman grand marketing over at Panda Doc, where you kind of decide what you're leading indicator is for, you know, increased business, and does that number go up or down aligned with your content creation or other demandain activities? And it sounds like maybe that's kind of the difference potentially between the two. One hundred percent. Yeah, awesome, awesome. So let's talk about, you know, content creation, and maybe we can just talk about it in the context of your career. Is Creating content something that you've always been interested in? was there a particular role that you had where it became sort of, you know, top of mine for you? You might just sharing with the audience sort of how you kind of started with with content creation? For sure. So my first role, I was actually...

...an SDR, okay, inn call it that. It's a time and honestly, like I was, I was the only, the only employeed the company and to be blunt, I just sucked at it, like I'm okay bad, like it was just like awfully, you know, I was doing sixty to eighty calls a day just were six months of my professional career. So I have a lot of I have a lot of respect for the people that can actually do that, but I was horrible at it and my thing was like how, how can I not do this? And basically what what we came up with at the time, and this was back in two thousand and eleven, was why don't we create a youtube channel. Okay, that, and this was in like the the welding and fabrication space that teaches people how to do this thing that you know, goes towards our audience. So we started putting out regular youtube content and that started. That was growing way. The interest in that content was growing so much faster than even the original business model that we flipped the entire business model of the company to support the content that we're putting out. Really, and long story short, like what began as like a almost like a directory, sort of like even in two thousand and eleven was still outdated, like an online directory, thing turned very much into like in like an influencer model where people we're paying us to use their products and we opened up e commerce and that sort of thing because we got content so quickly, and I've been lucky in doing that, starting with Youtube. But then same, same as we do here or fine labs. We take one piece of long form content at refine labs, it's a it's a podcast, and then we repurpose it for multiple channels. I was doing the same thing at Wellcom, which was create a long form piece of youtube content. In the beginning. It was it was re purpose for facebook and then instagram and then, more recently, before I left, Tick Tock. But I was lucky that I was again because I was a I was other than the subject matter expert that did. I was, you know, filming. I was basically one man show, which allowed me to experiment with these new channels and just like decide, yeah, you know, I think I'm going to give instagram and go let's if Tis gonna work. So like I've always had the ability to be like on the on the front line of a lot of these platforms. And then actually, about a year ago I moved into the the BB saspace and have been following refine labs. Yep, Opportunity came about and they wanted to expand youtube and tick tock and it just kind of fell into place. So it's really incredible because, you know, this idea of going viral is is one that I feel like is you know, it's something that we talked about in society more and more, certainly have since two thousand and eleven and the last decade or so. But can you just share you know, I have some questions about that before we get into those. What does it feel like when you see your content gaining the momentum to the extent that people are paying to be a part of it. What does that actually feel like to you as a content creator? And it's kind of subjective question, but like, yeah, it's pretty cool, I mean that that you built something like that, that that garnered that much attention. So just how does that feel for you when you realize that was happening? So this is kind of interesting because in those previous roles, yeah, I was very much the man behind the scene. So, like I filmed, I edited,...

I did like the this sturrgy behind like releasing stuff and where we're going to put it. I dealt with sponsors, but I was never the person in front of the camera. Gotcha, like the person in front of the cameras, the one that's like yeah, people love me, you know, like they're getting you would go to trade shows and, Oh yeah, talk to the front, to the back without getting stopped a million times. So like for the on camera talent, like there's definitely a lot of attention, but from behind the scenes, like I tried not to be the front, like I didn't want to be that. And from that perspective, my goal was always to try to like, all right, let's keep this in check, guys. So then, you know, having been associated with a show or channel that reached that that level, what were some of the the big takeaways? I mean, do you have some nuggets of of insight that you think our audience might benefit from? Just you know, have to imagine consistency is is got to be one of them, because that's what everyone says. But what are some of the key takeaways of your experience and in producing a successful show like that? The biggest, like, over the entire breadth of all the content that I've ever created, the the biggest takeaway is always listening to what your audience wants, acting on it, but also involving them process interest. So, like, one of the things that I attributed to to our success was basically any time somebody commented, we would take a note of, like what they were commented with a request M we would take a note of what that request was and if we could like physically do it, like we had the capability to do it, we would make a note of it. But not only would we do it and turn it around as quickly as possible, we would do our best to try to like bring that person into the CREQUOTU process and, at the very least, like hey, so and so requested this, like this is what we're doing. Thank for the and by doing that we really trained our audience to engage with us because, like, he knew that if they asked us a question, like we would create a piece of content behind it. Cool, like people ask me all the time like well, what's because we we change this various times. It started out we did one video week, then it moved it to then moved two, three, and then we actually move back to two because we realized that when we went to three, like the quality, we didn't have the yeah, ability to keep the quality. Like people people just realize that, you know, when when they ask US stuff. You know, even though we have this, we would have this content counter of thirty days, right, and we would kind of like in our office, we had on the whiteboard and people would ask me all the time like how's your content counter look like? How do you plan for all this stuff? Because people are asked you to do things. So, like we would have like thirty days planned, but every time somebody asked us to do something, it jumped ahead of the line. So, like we would have thirty days and maybe two of those videos got filmed that month because, like, everything people ask us to do always took president. So like we were able to turn around responses to people with it. Yeah, generally like two weeks because we would it's really cool. Let me ask you, I mean, when you're getting started, how do you ensure that your content isn't just going out in the ether, is it? Is it the principle that if it's good content, like, if you build it, they will come, kind of thing, or did you learn some methodology that I guess those of us who maybe just getting started should be considering. What's the take away there? Honestly, I think it depends on the channel, because it's part of that. But one thing that I...

...think works across several channels is basically, if you're just getting started, instead of instead of just like trying to figure out what people want and like using your own like internal knowledge and just throwing stuff out there and see what sticks, what I tell people to do is find somebody who has the audience that you want to build in your space, and that in Youtube. This is what I would do is basically stack rank their their top one hundred videos from like the last year and then go through those videos in the comment section and find the questions that have the most engagement and then make the video for that question and then give that video to the person as a response. So you have all these people engaging with it that also see your video response. Bull because, like, especially with Youtube, like and take talk, I think is the same way, like it's built one person at a time, tick talk, like everyone thinks it's just going to be like massive growth from the start, but like, like it's starts in any content platform, it starts with one person and referring you to someone else or telling them like, Oh, this guy makes funny content whatever, like that's that's how I would start. I mean the key takeaway there that I'm hearing, and I don't think I've ever really thought about this, but that it's the content is bidirectional, like it's not just your putting content out there and people are watching it, like you, as the content creator, actually engaging with the audience, not just in the video but through the other channels that these platforms provide, like comments, for instance. And so I think, like when you start thinking about your content creation strategy, not just as a like we talk, you listen, you know, strategy, but a know, we actually engage, we actually interact in addition to the content that we're creating, or that's how we're going to create the content. I think that's a that's a strategy that I think, you know, our audience can definitely walk away from here. It's not just about creating content, it's about having bidirectional engagement with your with your audience, as a means of building that audience, which I think is a phenomenal a phenomenal idea. So well, and this kind of goes along with that. But look, like the the goal of creating content is, I mean you want to build a an audience, but like even more important than that audience is, like you want to build this community of people that like the really feel connected absolutely throwing stuff out there and not replying to people and not, you know, doing the other part of that to build the community you're likely not going to build you're not going to build the audience in the first place. Yes, like they go hand in hand. And so then this was between of the question, which is about resourcing. So, like when you sort of speak about a room with a thirty Dick Content calendar. Imagine on a white board and the on camera talent and this being your full time sort of work. I mean, is that what it takes? I mean, because it seems pretty hands on. So So, if I'M A BE TO BE Marketing Organization, for instance, is this something I should be hiring for, like like in a full time roll, or what do you what do you like? How would you sort of recommend, you know, people who own objectives related to marketing or content and a company think about spearheading a content arm? Yeah, I think we're going to see this a lot over the next like one to three years and beyond. And this goes. This definitely goes for be to be. Like I think the the influencer model is starting to kind of fade. People see that like okay, they're just getting paid to put out this message. So, like what what companies are realizing is like, let me go out and find a subject matter expert or creator that's like just really good, pay them what they're worth to have...

...them in house, Huh, and they can help us build this this brand or community from within. Yeah, stead of me paying them x amount of dollars, you know, and some affiliate links or something totally so I think one hundred percent like we're going to see a lot more companies bringing on subject matter experts that are brought in specifically, even if it's not a market mean company, like you're going to see people in, like, you know, the finance industry, bringing in like high caliber CFO type people to people a marketing to absolutely create this this type of content ab so I think you're already starting to see that to some extent. I think hup spot recently acquired a podcast, I think. I don't know if it was the hustle or one of these shows about building companies. I mean had a huge following. But you're seeing and actually this idea that technology companies are actually also media companies, which I think is really interesting concept. And so understanding the principles and the KPIS that make a media company successful is like, I think, probably an important exercise for technology companies who are sort of dabbling in that space. It's, you know, it's it's one thing to kind of create the content, but are you following the best practices to actually like get the content into the right places and and sort of engage with the audience the right way? So it's just really, really interesting to think about that in that context. Can we talk about channels for a second, because we've obviously spent some time talking about your experience with Youtube and I think as a part of that you've also mentioned that you started experimenting with other channels. I think you mentioned facebook, instagram and ultimately tick tock before you left. I guess the question that I have is, you know, what did you learn about those channels, like what are some of the at differences or ways that you found interaction with those channels and if there's a difference between them? Yeah, so this really goes for for every channel out there, but we really learned this quickly when we went from Youtube to facebook in the beginning, and that is people make the assumption that the same audience is following you across all channels. So they think that they can they can just put out the same content across all channels and they will succeed equally. We found that the audience on facebook and then on instagram and then on tick tock was completely different than the audience that we had on Youtube. Interesting and we learn the hard way in the beginning that, like, you need to listen to the audience on that specific channel and figure out what works best for that specific channel. And sometimes that's as simple as chopping it up into smaller pieces and putting it out. Sometimes it's as easy as reformatting a little bit so it comes up natively a little better. Yep, or, you know, in the in the sense of Tick Tock, like it's completely different, like if I'm recording a youtube highly you know produced Youtube Video. Yeah, like I can chop it up and put it on tick tock, but like what what's going to happen is it's not going to do that great because when people are flipping through tick tock, it's all these like Selfie shot, low production quality videos, and then you're super polished video comes up and it automatically looks like an advertisement, even though it's not, just because of how good it look. Interesting. Yeah, Tick Tock will become very well produced, let me assure you, because this was the same exact thing that happened on Youtube. Like we had great cameras and production equipment...

...when we first started youtube. We purposely did not heavily produce it for the exact same reason back in two thousand and eleven, I say, and then, as as the the platform caught up and people started putting out better and better content, like you could still be authentic with high quality content. Same things going to happen with Tick Tock, but the my my advice is make sure you're doing what the audience on that specific platform responds to. It is sounds like we're basically coming back to the point, which is created a content is one half of the equation. Actually again take an advantage of any engagement that that content inspires and actually engaging further, like having to content be bidirectional and as a concept that I know that I'm going to be walking away from from this conversation today. So talk to me a little bit about Tick Tock, because obviously, if you have a pulse, you know about it and understand that it's a very prevalent social media platform these days. But from someone who spent as much time as you have preaching videos for Youtube, what do you what do you like about Tick Tock and what do you believe it's potential impact, as it pertains to be, to be contact creation? There's a couple things that I really like about Tick Tock right now that I want to stress to people. Will Not be this way in a year. Okay, so one thing that I really like about it is it's the most authentic platform I've ever been on from a creation standpoint. Like it's hard to describe without actually getting on the platform, but like the the advice people are giving you, the content that you're watching. It's extremely authentic and I think it's almost like the platform has its own culture. That kind of like allows that to happen across all industries. Another thing is, and people talk about this all the time, is the ability to have really high organic reach, and I've seen it so my my, the first tick tock I ever created for Welcom, I created, I want to say it was like the end of two thousand, mid two thousand and nineteen probably, and the the amount of organic reach you could get then to the amount of organic reach you can get now is way different. I throughout fifteen posts, millions and millions of yews, fortyzero followers on fifteen posts like that doesn't happen on other channels, and that's that's going away. Like more and more people are getting on the platform, which means creating on the Plat sure, which means more and more, you know, there's there's less of a discrepancy between people watching and people creating. Yep, so that organic reach is not going to be as easy to get a year or two from now, which again, it's the same thing that happened on facebook, the same thing that happened on Instagram, it's the same thing that's going to happen on ticktock. The beauty of it now is like you can create this organic audience relatively easily if you have a strategy for creating consistent content. And two years from now, when everybody in their mother is on Tick Tock, yeah, and you want to, you like you have the audiences. They're like you. That's the platform. It's going to be paid to play and you're going to have to have this crazy huge ad budget to be able to get reach. The people that started now are going to have these followings that they can they can hit those same people organically. So in that regard, I mean, if you were to give advice to a panel of CMO was, what would it be? I mean as it pertains...

...to whether it's tick tock or general content strategy in general. This is actually kind of funny because somebody had this exact question for me in regard to their own company, like how can I? Should we do this? Yeah, and I'll tell you the same thing I told them, because they were saying basically, like can we outsource it? Is this something that like we can do internally? Should we hire someone? And I think for most companies, the the best answer to that is like one you have to look at look at what you're already doing, like if you have a blog that you're putting out regular content, if you're putting out like regular like emails and writing regular ebooks and doing linkedin and doing all these other channels, podcast, like, put all of this stuff together. Why? I should say, split it all apart and look at, like what is working, what has the highest upside. And I think most companies have the talent internally to be able to do this. They're just swamped with other things that they can't because it's not something that like, you know, if you want to be good at it, I'm going to, you know, fill myself and do a trend every day and just like the company's going to blow up. Yeah, like there's some strategy behind it. So my advice to most companies would be fine, whoever that champion is going to be internally first, like find somebody who wants to do it, give them the keys to it. Can be a company channel, can be a personal channel, it doesn't matter. Give them time at work to do it, let them figure it out, and then, like, as as you start to see that pick up, then you can look at, you know, external people, Hiringspec sure be for it. Then you can build out a program that you know that person has already, you know, had some learnings that they can they can build this this internal team of people. They can kind of do it as like they're their side thing in addition to their normal role. And that's what that's what we're doing. It refine. I mean my goal right now is basically proof of concept. M which is why you see me on Linkedin so hard. Is Like my goal is to bring that be to be Audi in, over to tick Tock. So like I'm putting all this stuff on Linkedin to show how well it works on Linkedin, because I know the audience is on Linkedin. So if they come over to make tick tock content, like they're gonna be there. Yeah, and that that community build on the platform. Yeah, but as I'm learning, thing like I'm sharing this with other people in my company and they're seeing the success. I'm even involving other people in the company in my current videos. So, like they they get a little taste of like wow, this is pretty cool. And then, you know, I'm having these conversations because they want to they want to start their own as now, like we're building this this champion program and, you know, the goal being that, you know, everyone's got a little piece of it and as the person who manages the company, count like my goal for the company is to just be like this aggregate of like promoting all of our employees to get absolutely extra extra boost. So let's talk about that though. The you know, you talk about sort of the interplay between it Tick Tock and Linkedin for right now, and and it's such that you've generated enough engagement on linked in to the extent that it triggered there. Yeah, I think that you're a bot of some sort. I think it'd be fun for to share that story with the audience. But also, again, I think this brings the question back to, you know, the be to be audience in general. If they're on Linkedin, the strategy then is to get them to tick tock. Why is that? Is it because you have an opportunity to have almost like a mind sure monopoly on tick tock, whereas there's noise on Linkedin'? Can you...

...maybe just sort of extrapolate a little bit on sort of what the thought process there, because if your content is creating enough engagement that linkedin thinks you're a robot, it can maybe. I mean I'm just wondering sort of what what you're thinking around that, because that seems like a phenomenal outcome for sure. You've that level of engagement on that channel. No social media platform last forever, right. Yeah, I mean like they I don't want to say they come in they go, because I think that's a little harsh. But, like her, new platforms are always coming out, that that People Migrate Tourd well, let's not let's not forget clubhouse like six months ago or whatever it was, you know, being that the next big one. Right, yeah, but but I think tick tock has been around a long, long enough now. Yeah, and like the usage has is just like growing and growing. That like there's there's no worry that tick tock is going to be the next clubhouse. Yeah, my point in in trying to bring people over. It's twofold one. It's it's kind of a selfish reason, right, like I my goal is to build, be, to be on Tick Tock, because that's my thick. Yeah, yeah, you know, I I'm trying to be that voice. But but the other part of that is, like linkedin organic. I mean we've already seen the scene, it go down since two thousand and nineteen. So like it's not going to be there forever. And the people that see the activity that I'm generating on linkedin from my tick tock videos, they're going to be the ones that that are doing really well on tick tock two years from now because they're getting on it now. It's gonna Happen. It's just a matter of WHO's going to get on it now and who's going to just keep saying my audience is only on Linkedin until they're not. Yeah, it's really fascinating to me because, you know, like in my mind I've often thought of about tick tock as sort of a Gen z social media platform, but I think it's far more ubiquitous than that. I guess. Is that consistent with your experience as well? Like, who are you seeing using tick tock these days. Yeah, I think it's definitely it's definitely maturing and that in the audience. And I think what you just said is what a lot of people the stands, a lot of people take, but like a more like rigid stands, like, yeah, it's just like twelve year olds dancing, I think. And I think like again, if you look at any social media platform and it's ever come out, yeah, the same exact narrative every single time and every single time, like people my age said that about instagram when we were all on facebook. Yep, and then like now everybody is on instagram and now same thing with tick too. Yep. But I think it's worth noting because there are so many people say, my my audience is only on Linkedin. That's kind of where I've been going with my content strategy. Is like, even if you don't really care about tiptock right now, the platform allows you to do better on the platform that you're admitting is where your audience is. Sure, like three months ago I had one sixteen hundred followers and you know, I would get twelve likes on a on a post. Three months later I'm over five thousand. A Post that shared four hundred times, with a hundred eighty. That thousand views and almost a thousand comments. Like when you're scrolling through Linkedin, it's such a boring experience for the post part. Yeah, that when you see a tick tock video, and this isn't video in general, like I think there's a distinct difference between a video that looks like it was shot on your...

...phone, like yes, shape, and a square video. Yeah, because when you see a video that's in a vertical like Selfie, moode view, automatically you stop scrolling because one it's like, is this a tick tock? And even if it doesn't have the tick tock water mark, it's just that like it feels authentic. That's the word. Some some person like ripped out their phone and they're just like talking to I think. Not to interrupt you, but but I think, as you're saying that, and you can use the word authentic earlier, you describe tick Tock as a far more authentic content experience. But my goodness, you know how much content is there on linkedin today that you know? I often refer to this. Read it called instagram versus reality, which you know it shows like CIRTA. You know, shows the instagram photo and then maybe the unfiltered photo or whatever. I think unfiltered content, like in the form of a cell phone shot video of people that you're falling on linkedin versus the you know, the highly produced or just seemingly regurgitated or whatever. I think there is a tremendous amount of value of that and I think that is desirable on that platform. Sometimes the you know, Hustle porn or and all this other stuff, like it's great and for people who benefit from that, awesome, but like what about the content that's like yeah, it's Monday and Monday's suck, you know, or you know, just just you know, I'm saying just like where's the realness? Right, like nobody is batting a thousand every single day. Like even that as a topic, I think is something that, you know, people would respond to and being able to kind of just, you know, pick up your phone and have that conversation with your audience. I think that that does certainly Garner that authenticity. That that, I think, is still valuable and I think can enhance the platform and the the users experience for sure, and I think I think six months from now you're going to have a completely different linkedin experience than you're having right now. I think the amount of if it's not tick Tock, Tick Tock style content, yeah, like cell phone video type footage. Yeah, coming out on Linkedin, and that's that's one hundred percent the reason. Yeah, Gosh Man, I I'm really kind of enthralled in this. I think it's it's a world that that I know. I again, I could definitely stand to better understand that. You know, we've been producing this podcast now for over a year and certainly we know that consistency is is probably one of the core tenets here, but even just this idea of the engagement is one that we're going to take in and apply. Really do appreciate that insight. For those of you in the audience who haven't checked out todd's content, where can they find it? Because there's some characters, you know, your boy Tucker, Gregory, the boss man. We're sure audience behind you. You can. You can follow me Linkedin or tick Tock. It's Todd cloudser on both. You're super into it. I have a Fagal called you Boyd Tucker that I used to post so I can fill my tick tocks of his post. Yeah, but but before we go, I think there's one more thing that that I think is worth saying. Yeah, I think the bigger reason people are hesitant about tick tock. I think they use the excuse that my my audience is only on Linkedin, but I think it's more of just they like an apprehension to get in front of the camera, which I mean I had the same thing like when I when I started tick tock at refine labs, like it's part of the reason I was on you, doing youtube and all these other platforms for ten years. I never showed up on cameras, like I didn't want to be in front of a camera. A super easy way to start is just like take your linkedin text posts and...

...talk them out on camera and like that. That's how I start on tick tock because I wasn't comfortable enough doing the entertainment stuff and once I got comfortable enough on camera, like now I see it how terrible they were and I actually I actually made them private because I want to like here curate the the the experience on my account a little better. But like it's a it's a really good way to get started and like when you go through that when you're scrolling through the platform, just seeing other people and how they do things. Yeah, like it's made me a far better content creator in three months than I ever you know, ten years of amazing tube. So, even if you're not going to use it, like experiencing the content people are putting out. Yeah, there's a huge benefit. Well, I mean, you know, I would have been remissed to not ask you, as a content creator, what inspires you, because, I mean, unless you just have an engine of ideas that are constantly turning out, which what you may, but where do you where do you find your inspiration for you know, whether it's some of the entertainment that you're creating, I mean, what inspires you and the content that you're created right now? So this is this is two things. One is, like I said before, like once you get going, people are going to give you ideas. HMM, that's the beauty of kind of like picking up steam as like I don't have to create all my own ideas because people are like, Oh, you should do this. But the other thing that's a big mistake people make is thinking like Oh, I need to you know, because Tick Tock. Basically, you train the algorithm okay. So, like when you get on, like you you find what you like and you stay there and then it learns what you like and that's what it feeds to you. So people say, like, you know, use the hashtags like you want to follow, and then like get in them and engage with what you like and then, tick, talk, will learn. I do the opposite. Ever since I started, like I basically just flip through and it it so like I have a lot of like big influencers and like comedy accounts and Gamers and stuff like that in my feed, even though it's not like what I'm creating. The be to be spaces, like by far it's the worst space you could possibly try to emulate as far as like creativity. So like you have to get outside of that. I say, see what, let the people doing it really well on the platform in Joh Bire you, and like this is kind of how I came up with my strategy. If you follow me, like I have to kind of pillar pieces of content, which is like the remote office, Yep, which is like these like mock zoom call thingdoms. And if marketing did, and it is basically if marketing did press conferences, if marketing did documentaries of and basically like add whatever word you want at the end. Yeah, and the reason I did that, like it wasn't by accident. Like when I'm looking at these cut these creators that have like fifty million followers that are showing up in my feed and I go and look at like how they're doing it, they all have between like one and three like pillars. Yeah, yeah, you know them for Yep, and then they'll sprinkle trends in in between. But like you don't follow people that just do trends, least I thought, unless they're unless they're in bb because I'm trying to support that community. Like, if I see a trend, even if it's like super clever, I'll watch it, I'll like it, like I'm not going to follow the person because, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what the those trends get more reached. But like if I see that same person do like the original piece of content, that's just like that's really good. Yeah, I'm going to follow that, but that's cool. That's cool. Bears a ton of additional investigation. I'm walking away from this conversation inspired by but what you're sharing, I...

...think it definitely peaks my curiosity and so I'm excited for the audience to have a listit because I think you're kind of describing yourself as almost like a pioneer of the BB space in Tick Tock, like wanting to leave lead an audience to a new channel where there's new opportunity, and so I'm hopeful that after listening to this, that's some of our audience takes that inspiration and and investigates. I know I'm going to be doing that myself. Todd I really do appreciate you take it some time to join us today. We'll have to kind of carry on this conversation for because I think you're speaking to a lot of potential evolution in these channels over the coming months, if not years, and so really curious to see how it all plays out. Anything else you want to leave us with? Yeah, so I will. I would just say this. If anybody listens to this and decides to get on Ticktock, shoot me a message and I will be more than happy to help you get started, do a collaboration with you, whatever, whatever it takes. That's huge you. That's huge. That's really gracious of you. Really appreciate your sharing that offer with our audience all right, todd well, thanks very much for joining us on growth marketing camp. We will catch up with you in the near future. Thanks for Happy Bobby. Thanks for listening to growth marketing camp. If you enjoyed this episode, would love it if you would give it a quick five star rating or share it with a friend or colleague looking to give a little more inspiration for their next campaign. You want to learn more about the company behind the show, had to open sensecom. That's OPE. En Se en secom will catch you on the next episode.

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